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A word of advice for PBN sellers.

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by ThopHayt, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. ThopHayt

    ThopHayt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Given recent changes, and looking forward I would like to give you PBN (public blog network) sellers out there a few things to think about. The following are some of the common problems that I am seeing in public networks, along with a few ideas for avoiding future penalties and giving your clients better value.

    1) The content on public networks is lacking typically: 350 words is NOT enough frankly. I would access that the old metric of 450-650 (minimum) is what is needed for peak success and long-term safety.

    2) Vary the article length more widely: Having an article length variation of a mere 50 words is a joke. Legnth should vary by as much as 30% (percent) meaning if your minimum size is 450 you need articles that are 650 in length to occur. And this is NOT a license to do 90% 450 word articles with the occasional 650. Mix it up evenly. And it would not hurt to throw up the occasional 1,200 article.

    3) Not every single article in your network should have links: This is another huge footprint that cheap networks have. I'd prefer to see only 75% at max have links.

    4) Stop using the same Wikipedia links as secondary authority outbound links: This is a huge footprint as well. I don't know who started this habit of wikipedia links, but it SEROUSLY needs to stop.

    5) Pay for multiple years of hosting UP FRONT for your network: Advertise it's approximate lifetime length to your clients. Even if you charge a little bit more for the links clients would gladly pay for you to increase hosting longevity.

    6) Make Social Network profiles for MOST your sites: As with anything, doing it 100% is a footprint, but I see too many cheap public links with either zero social pages built or them all having just FB and Twitter. Mix things up.

    7) Beware home page posts: I know it is where the link juice is NOW... but be aware that a perminant homepage linked network is another huge footprint.

    8: STOP advertising as handmade content and then giving spun content: This is obvious, and buyers are not dumb. It harms credability, and a long term relationship with buyers is more valuable than tricking a few people.

    9: Don't be afraid to sell links for a few bucks more: If you do all of this, then say so. And if it's is costing you more then it makes sense to charge for it. I see FEW sellers giving an exceptional product, so if you have one then of course you should have the right to charge enough to make up the extra hosting/ect costs.

    10: Avoid crappy penny hosts: Another huge footprint, and common knowledge.

    11: Varry IP classes: All class c/b/a is going to eventually catch up with you.

    12: Value backoink profile over PR: Smart buyers (and google) know that a fake high pr domain is junk.

    13: Don't build all the same T2 links to every post like a robot....

    14: Beware whois: Google can see through private whois. If you use all the same person or all the same register you're screwed.

    15: Beware free samples: Save a couple "fake" sites you never sell links to as sample sites. Never tell anyone your real sites unless you decide to give reports.

    16: Forget about OBL: if your site is HQ enough or if you have enough non-link articles: OBL is only important in relation to site size. 1,000 links on a site that had 50,000 non-link articles on it is not as bad as a crappy 50 article site with a link in ever article.

    17: Age is worth money: If your site has been up (as it is NOW) for a long time and constantly updated it is more valuable than an overnight PBN on an aged domain that will be gone in a year. This is why keeping sites alive with higher OBL is a good thing if you treat them right with enough non-link articles.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
  2. Rua999

    Rua999 Power Member

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    8) Don't use cheap seo hosts.
     
  3. Gyuman82

    Gyuman82 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Or you could just build your own...
     
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  4. ThopHayt

    ThopHayt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Obviously that is the high road, but there will always be sellers out there who want to make money selling and there will always be buyers who need some quick links to start ranking. There is nothing "wrong" with buying/selling links if the network is built with a minimal level of care. These guidelines map out an idea of that path. If I knew I could get that level of quality I wouldn't hesitate to put any money-site I own on it. But many sellers are trailing behind the times instead of being ahead of the curve.
     
  5. Gyuman82

    Gyuman82 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I think the issue sellers are going to find is that if they did in fact adopt your approach they would have to raise their prices significantly.

    Sure the network would be safer, but I would imagine they would lose a lot of profits as people willing to pay for premium networks are few and far between.

    With raised prices at that point you may as well invest a little bit more and build your own network, so it really is likely a catch 22 scenario, so I don't expect to see these crap networks dying off any time soon from the marketplace.
     
  6. ThopHayt

    ThopHayt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Remember though, there is a niche for everything. Apple sells high-end products for a premium yet does well. Meanwhile every seller on BHW is in a race to undercut each other with cheaper and cheaper networks. I think there is a LOT of room for high-end links. Some people just don't have the time to build their own network, especially at the beginning of a site's life.

    I can find 50 networks for $8 a link. But I'd gladly pay $12 if the network took most of these steps. 50% more profit for the seller for just minor details. Seems to make sense to me.
     
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  7. hnmfvnxe

    hnmfvnxe Regular Member

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    Your asking all this for $12....lol.

    Don't be so cheap and be ready to pay premium per link and per month. You wont get close to that price for a one-time payment.
     
  8. Gyuman82

    Gyuman82 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    I'm sure he was talking about monthly.
     
  9. thedood

    thedood Newbie

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    Anything to prove this?
     
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  10. boombaby7

    boombaby7 Junior Member

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    I second this. How is this possible?
     
  11. jon_xx_x

    jon_xx_x Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Since the first update on blog network a couple years ago I would never in a million years pay to be on someone's blog network.
    You know what the biggest red flag is? A 50 site blog network with 50 outgoing links, 50 identical outgoing links to the same sites.
    I'm not going to say every, but the majority of people that sell links to private blog networks sell fucking garbage.
    Too many people see it as quick rankings and don't realize it's a matter of time before it's shut down.
    Most of the people selling links either a) don't know what the fuck they're doing or b) don't give a fuck, they just want money.
    Almost every single one of them leave an obvious footprint. They do it so half assed, and so sloppy because they're in such a rush to make a buck. Just go look, come across one, you laugh at it. That's what google sees. It's so blatantly obvious it's a blog network. And it's so easy to track down every single other site on the network.
     
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  12. b1step-ahead

    b1step-ahead Power Member

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    I think the best way to wrap this up is to treat a pbn site as a money site and to do the things other's wont or cant afford. Home page site links to me is the screaming red flag that the g picks up on.
     
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  13. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    Great advice all around. Just a quick correction though, PBN stands for private blog network, not public.
     
  14. b1step-ahead

    b1step-ahead Power Member

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    They start out as private.
     
  15. bartosimpsonio

    bartosimpsonio Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    The private in PBN refers to one private person owning all the blogs, not about their reachability.
     
  16. prab1996

    prab1996 Elite Member

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    Depends upon how much you can pay. Bigbuddy was selling pbn links for $3/link/month and on other hand many people are selling links for $1/link/month.

    Don't expect too much for cheap sellers.
    -=-
     
  17. SteveWaller

    SteveWaller Regular Member

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    I have never bought links from a public network as I build my own but you make some valid points. I'll add my 2 cents worth for some of the points below...

    Here's an idea - offer buyers the opportunity to provide their own content in return for a small discount. I'd much rather get my own content written the way I like it to be written so I can have more control over things such as length and link placement. I guess the only problem is that the buyer would then be able to identify the sites by searching for this content so if you are a seller who keeps his network totally secret without providing actual reports, this could be an issue.

    Continuing from my previous point, maybe offer some sort of content-for-links swap. What I mean by this is that if a buyer provides a 1,200 word article without a link, they can place 2 x 600 word articles with their links for free or for a discounted monthly price.

    The above suggestion would help with this too.

    Risky considering how Google is targeting PBNs via hosting. And would buyers trust someone that the seller has indeed paid for all their hosting up front? How can they tell for sure?

    Why build any tier 2 links if the domain is strong enough?

    I don't believe this to be true. Google cannot see through private whois as the domains are, in fact, registered with the privacy company's details - only that company knows who the original owner is.

    Overall, I think the message is - take more care over your network sites and reinvest in them on an ongoing basis. The problem, as far as I can see, is that nobody can be 100% sure a network won't get hit by penalties or deindexing so why spend the extra money and reduce your profits now? Do you think if BMR had made their sites amazing that they wouldn't have still been hit?

    Good networks are always likely to be those that don't have links sold on them - i.e. proper private ones built and run by someone for his own money sites.
     
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  18. ThopHayt

    ThopHayt Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    With regards to the Whois info being viewable by Google I point you to Google's recent advancements in the domain sector. From what I've read, at their current state they have the ability to see through private Whois because of this new status. If they are actually choosing to do so is another matter, but I feel that it is smarter not to "trust" Google's good will and be careful with registration.
     
  19. thedood

    thedood Newbie

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    I doubt they would go to this extent to take one down unless it's massive (and even then it's unlikely), however, you're right - they are partnered up w/ Godady and Enom and money talks.
     
  20. SteveWaller

    SteveWaller Regular Member

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    One registrar cannot see through another registrar's privacy - the domain gets registered with the contact details of the registrar so if Google are getting the actual owners name and address then they are breaching plenty of laws or are colluding with the registrars themselves (likely to also be illegal as I have not agreed for my personal details to be shared with anyone).

    So Google being a registrar means nothing in my mind and neither does their agreements with godaddy/enom.