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75% of BST inquiries: If this works, I'm gonna make a big order!!!

Discussion in 'BlackHat Lounge' started by macdonjo3, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    I realize like 75% or more of BST inquiries go something like this...

    Ooooh, your minimum order is $200. Can you do $50? If this works, I'm gonna order a lot more.


    ... of course if it works, you're gonna buy more!

    or today's latest:

    If it works we gonna make huge orders for an big amount of sites. Budget - up to 7.000 Dollar a month.

    I'm assuming he means $7000 and not $7.00, but if your intentions are really that high, you can afford the $25 minimum order.

    The big money on here is catering to the agencies by offering 3-4 figure per month packages, and I think Tommy may be the one of the very few sellers who's figured that out.

    Selling $5 expired domains isn't gonna pay for your new Audi S5, but billing a few agencies for $1500/month will.

    Cater to your audience.
     
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  2. t0mmy

    t0mmy Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good points Josh.

    It really depends on how much you value your time and expertise. Now days most of my sales and traffic comes from social media advertising.. not so much bhw. Like you said we're targeting agencies now, we achieve this through heavy content marketing combined with well optimized ad campaigns. I wish I'd made this move long ago, we have clients now that drop 5 figure orders without batting an eye lid.

    The type of client we get now with this approach is surreal at times, I had an ex president of <removed> pay me quite a bit recently for some social media work, he's running in the 2017 elections again so wanted his online presence brought up to scratch.

    I know my worth, I know we have a superior product.. my prices reflect that.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  3. PHPInjected

    PHPInjected Elite Member

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    Sellers now are so concerned with getting all of the fish that they end up focusing on many small fish instead of a few big ones. I used to work as a realtor, so I'm familiar with the kind of patience it takes to get 2-3 sales per month and make just as much as someone who gets 20-30.

    Knowing your worth and comprehending that time = money are two key factors when providing a service. The goal is really to get to a point where you don't have to "sell yourself" because your work already speaks for itself. Some might read that as some self righteous sales bullshit, but to provide a service and have it as your main source of income - you have to be in the right mindset and maintain it.
     
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  4. healzer

    healzer Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Good point.
    We truly need more valuable services on BHW, instead of cheap Fiverr-ish gigs.
     
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  5. macdonjo3

    macdonjo3 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Leith was talking the other day, how he knows of at least THREE sellers who outsource their $100+ packages to crorkservice on Fiverr.

    Not much we can do about it. It's not even up to the reviewal process. This is up to buyer to do their research about members, ask around, etc.

    Someone like Leith can't out these guys, because they're just gonna come around and attack his thread, so it's not worth it to him.
     
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  6. mudbutt

    mudbutt Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Theyre just different business models...one isn't always better than the other. i know agency owners that have thousands of clients paying $99 and i know agency owners who are "high end" with fewer clients, and at the end of the day each model makes ludicrous amounts of money. Some people (like myself), find that after you have your processes nailed down (prospecting, support, fullfillment), scaling is infinitely easier when targeting the low end market/volume based model. Scaling is as simple as filling an extra 3x3 cubicle with a warm body from craigslist ;). Just different strokes for different folks, IMO.
     
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  7. Leith

    Leith Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    This ^.

    I'll be honest.. when I first started selling on BHW (2012), I was targeting every client out there. I had packages for as little as $5 in order to try and make a quick buck. It worked, albeit not for long. It got to the point where the quality of clients dropped massively and in the end I was spending a lot more time dealing with each client's issues/questions. I wasn't building a relationship with my customers.

    Like you said.. "the goal is really to get to a point where you don't have to sell yourself". I launched my Genesis PBN service in January and I think I'm the first SEO seller who has such a long sales copy (3000+ words). I also have a very straight forward, transparent terms/conditions on the sales copy and I've received several disapproval messages from potential clients telling me it put them off. Good. I'm done dealing with clients just to make a quick sale. Like Josh says, I'm catering to my specific audience.

    I think the issue with the marketplace is pretty simple. Beginners come over here and see all the various BST's with tons of pages/replies/reviews and they instantly assume that sellng on BHW is a "make money overnight" type scheme. It's not. Yes, the marketplace currently has hundreds of BST's - but only a very small % of the sellers actually make decent income. I've been selling here for 5 years and it has changed a lot from back in 2012. There are far too many low quality, identical services here.

    There are members with way too many BST's.
    There are members who have link building services for $3 with a "ranking guarantee".
    There are members who do have suspicious reviews on their BST's.
    There are members who outsource their services to Fiverr.

    And the list goes on..

    And like Josh says, there isn't much you can do about it. It's up to the buyer to do their due diligence.

    Don't openly purchase a $10 link building service expecting Page 1 rankings. There was a thread on here yesterday where someone was asking why his website wasn't ranking after purchasing a $20 link building package. The flood of new BST's on the marketplace has also seemed to have increased the amount of gullible buyers. If you see a service that is promising you "guaranteed" rankings for $3 - use your brain and don't complain later when you're not ranking as high as you wanted to.

    Regarding fake reviews: there have been a lot of threads about this over the last few months. The best "tip" I could give to anyone considering buying a service is to handpick a couple of reviewers on the thread and send them all a message asking for their results/experience after they posted the review. If you message 10 members and get 0 responses.. then something is fishy. Simple due diligence like this ^^ can easily solve some of the key issues people face with the marketplace.

    Anyways, /rant.

    Looking forward to the forum/marketplace upgrade this year :)
     
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    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
  8. zx123

    zx123 Senior Member

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    Yes, but 99% threads of bst section are full shits... also your expired domain is listed on fiverr (someone sell a similar type)... the difference is you sell 50$ and on fiverr for 5$ ...
    This is the market man. Buyers need to do their search but we need more value contents on BST
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
  9. Mikaelo

    Mikaelo Regular Member

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    Half the threads on here & other IM forums are complete BS. So much cross promotion, reselling & down right bullshit in my opinion.
     
  10. Unreliable Witness

    Unreliable Witness Regular Member

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    You'll get statements like the ones posted because of the risk involved in buying in the marketplace.

    If you don't have any previous relationship with the seller, then its a matter of trust if you're transferring money to him or her and hoping that two weeks later work will be done as specified on the sales post.

    $20 is not a lot of money in the West, but in many countries, it can be equivalent to $200 or more.

    I ordered quite a few services before I joined the forum as a member (in order to review them) and virtually none have been quite as advertised. Of course I realised that before I bought, and I was willing to take the risk, so by and large, my expectations have been met, but I lowered my expectations before buying.

    Sellers need to build confidence before they can expect large orders at high prices. Some members do this by demonstrating expertise in posts, some have to do it by taking orders for samples. You have to start somewhere, and for many people, that is taking many small orders in order to build a brand. Once you've been around for a while, you can offer just one or two services at a higher price, and use your reputation to sell.

    So I don't think its unfair to ask for samples. Either that, or sellers should post example work on the sales thread and be more open about what exactly they are offering. Both are fine as ways of reducing the buyers risk.
     
  11. Sherbert Hoover

    Sherbert Hoover Jr. Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Like I've said time and time again on BHW: Put a value on your time, and stick to it. From my Efficiency Guide: "Don't drive on top of dollars to chase pennies. If you put a value on your time, you will easily cut out over half of the things you're working on that are hemorrhaging money."

    It's come to a point where I have so little free time available to work on web projects that I am either charging $2,500 per month minimum, or just doing the work for free (if it's something I thoroughly enjoy). Lowballing by 75% like what Josh said in the OP is insulting, plain and simple.
     
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  12. loedown

    loedown Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Ain't that the truth.
     
  13. Ste Fishkin

    Ste Fishkin BANNED BANNED

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    I only sold for a couple of months on the BST section, cashed in some stuff and got out as planned.

    There is no fucking way I could do that full time, fuck that. It's not even the customers that drove me mad (really, only 3 out of 300 were trouble), it was competitors.

    We had one planting fake reviews and causing drama over fuck all (nanexo)

    Another stating I was a scammer to potential customers on skype (Ardley216)

    Another asking people why they are leaving me good reviews when they shouldn't... (Not going to name them, we got it sorted like men with no drama)

    I had rip off reports posted in my name, nanocock got his micro workers to release my parents address on the forum, I took down my old freelancing website portfolio because it contained personal details they were using to try and hack my email... I mean for fucks sake. All this nonsense over keywords?

    Was the money good, yeah! I was definitely on the upper end of the pricing scale and I think that kept a lot of the noobs away (hence only 3 customers acting like arseholes) and I still sold way more than I thought I would, but maybe I just don't have a thick skin like I thought I did, all that stress really got to me.

    I'm 2 weeks shy of 5 years on the forum and while I trolled a lot of people and I've probably upset some people when I was younger and a bit of a nobhead I never scammed people and I knew my product was good. I totally got behind it and there is nothing more I could have done to make it better... So to have people dragging my good reputation through the mud over something they made up really annoyed me.

    To have a bunch of retards who sell keywords for $6 attacking a guy that sells them for $500, fuck. I wish they realised they are just idiots and had a bit more ambition to do it themselves. I wish people realised that acting like a dick gets you nowhere and if they wanted to get to my level all they had to do was re-brand themselves and join me...

    But the important thing to remember is this, there is no cure for being a cunt!
     
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  14. FutureProofSeo

    FutureProofSeo Senior Member

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    amen

    ------------
     
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  15. ghengis_khan

    ghengis_khan Regular Member

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    T0mmy is also one of the only ones i have good experience with.

    Over the 6 years I have been here I have bought so much shit, so many broken promises, so much shit being pushed. No wonder people are hesitant to buy
     
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  16. Geasy

    Geasy Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Just skimming through the posts. I couldn't leave without commenting on this one.

    Really good point

    Selling $5 expired domains isn't gonna pay for your new Audi S5, but billing a few agencies for $1500/month will.

    Cater to your audience.