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301 redirects on Old domains and Link Juice.

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by ┼blackrat┼, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    So I read it in THIS WSO:
    Code:
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/member-downloads/250512-get-avoid-google-sandbox-period-filters-any-penalties-wso.html
    (got get it and thank the guy!)about how to transfer "trustrank" and linkjuice from an old domain to a new one using a simple 301 redirect.

    This is great since I have a couple of old (6+ yrs) domains sitting still in my accounts that could be used just for this purpose.

    So... What´s your take on this?

    So far I have been using web 2.0 properties in a random link structure mininet for protection and it works wonders. Been thinking about doing this to boost it even more.

    Not only the guy in the WSO claims it´ll avoid sandbox by having the old domain transferring "trustrank" to my new site, he also says all the linkjuice credited to the old domain will be passed.

    Well. One instantly thinks... Redirect domain and blast it to hell. It´s my personal experience that old domains won´t get sandboxed even after HAMMERING it with ANY backlinks.

    But... this sounds too good to be true, and questions like "will the fact that the old domain has nothing to do with the new topic affect the operation?" and "Can I "Recycle" an old domain after I´ve used it(i.e sold the new site) and use it to another new site?" So I thought I´d might come and ask.

    Anybody done that? What are your thoughts? I´ve seen hints of people doing this for months now, hasn´t G gotten smarter about it by now? I never tried it because I was focused on other stuff, but it´s time to expand.


    Show your expertise.


    Thank you.

    ┼BlackRat┼
     
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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2010
  2. Satan Claus

    Satan Claus Regular Member Premium Member

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    I have a sandboxed 1999 .com, so I beg to differ :p
     
  3. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    Well guess you unleashed your xrumer real hard on that eh...
     
  4. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    Any other inputs on these? C´mon 301´s are still blackhat or what?
     
  5. thedorf

    thedorf Senior Member

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    301's are not blackhat, blasting the hell out of a 1999 .com on sites with porn and gambling links doesn't look too good though
     
  6. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    Well if you use a 301 to backlink spam to the old domain and reap the juice on the new, then I call this blackhat.

    However, does this works?
     
  7. thedorf

    thedorf Senior Member

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    Hey blackrat,

    I've recently tested this and my conclusion is yes the 301 will forward linkjuice and whatnot. This is what a 301 is designed to do 1. tell the search engines the website has changed locations (and by association forward "link credits and juice") and 2. forward visitors to the new location.

    I agree, doing it specifically for this purpose is a tad on the grey side.

    Just don't "blast the hell" out of the old domain, especially if it has been unused for awhile. However many links you build out just don't ping them (my opinion). Let Google find them naturally, like in the real world.

    Cheers
     
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  8. yousefgreat

    yousefgreat Regular Member

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    Yes, a 301 redirect will pass on all the link juice. I have been doing that for the past 2 years :)
     
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  9. snwbrdstylee

    snwbrdstylee Registered Member

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    My question has always been, if you take Domain A and 301 it to Domain B.

    Then blast 1 Million+ links to Domain A in a week. Would this sandbox Domain B?

    Which site recieves the penalty? Domain A, Domain B, or both?
     
  10. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    That´s my question actually.

    Okay, so the juice will be passed. but what about "trustrank". will it prevent site A from being sandboxed, in case I decide to backlink spam site A(with site B being an old domain and redirecting to site A ?)
     
  11. thebaronbong

    thebaronbong Newbie

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    Google are staffed by 'people'. They aren't stupid. They know what's going on, and some things are tolerated - some are penalised
     
  12. sunseven

    sunseven Regular Member

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    That sounds like a sweet tactic. I don't think anyone can answer these questions definitively without testing. That's the only way you can truly get to the bottom of myths and realities so much suggestion is test it out on some of your throwaway domains and see what happens.
     
  13. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    Yea this is too sweet I´d only try it on a throwaway domain.
     
  14. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Usually most of the link juice will be passed, but it doesn't necessarily always pass all the link juice.

    There was some discussion a few months ago regarding the topic. I looked for the threads but the bhw search feature isn't what it used to be. I wasn't able to find the exact threads I was looking for, but here's one of the videos from Matt Cutts that prompted some of the discussions.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70LR8H8pn1M

    There's also an article on Stone Temple Consulting where Eric Enge interviewed Matt Cutts earlier this year.
    http://www.stonetemple.com/articles/interview-matt-cutts-012510.shtml
    One thing brought up in the interview was there's some amount of link juice lost in a redirect. It wasn't specified how much is lost and appears to depend on various factors.

    Here's a related article by Seer Interactive regarding a test done to determine how much link juice is passed through a 301 redirect.
    http://www.seerinteractive.com/blog/301-redirect-test-how-much-link-juice-are-you-losing/2010/04/09/


    Here's a few other bhw threads related to the same topic:
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...e-understand-redirects-duplicate-domains.html
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...search-engine-optimization-help-required.html
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/black-hat-seo/208275-301-redirect-boost-new-site.html
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/white-hat-seo/227111-question-about-301-redirect.html

    Hope that helps. :cool:
     
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  15. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    This is the question in your post that caught my attention. :)

    If you have an old website called DomainA with massive amounts of backlinks to it. Then you put a redirect on DomainA pointing to the new website DomainB, the link juice from all the backlinks to DomainA will be passed on to DomainB. If you do that then it should be a significant help to the value of DomainB.

    So the question leads to the idea of then selling DomainB. Then create a new website DomainC and change the redirect on DomainA from DomainB to DomainC.

    I believe if you do that then the link juice that had been helping DomainB will disappear not just for PR, and Trust Rank, but also for indexing in the SERP. The reason is that all that link juice actually belongs to DomainA and was just being loaned to DomainB so to speak. After changing the redirect it will now be sent to DomainC. The next step would then be to sell DomainC, and move the redirect to a DomainD. Rinse and repeat.

    I think this was a pretty big problem for website buyers a while back because there were a lot of black hat site flippers doing exactly that. People would buy what appeared to be a very valuable domain, and then within a month or so they'd get lost in the SERPs and all their traffic would disappear. I don't know how big a problem it actually is now, but it's one of the things I've always heard mentioned to watch out for.
     
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  16. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    Yes that came to my mind also. Would be a lot of trouble for buyers of the "B" domains LOL. Pretty much scamming imho, but always a good thing to be aware of. Thank you Greywolf, your input was much valuable.

    That Matt Cutts... He´s quite the clown isn´t he?
    LOL.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  17. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    LOL. Yeah I liked this one too :)
    on paid affiliate links,


    Actually that was from some advice on optimizing your site. He was saying that the crawler only budgets a limited amount of time to your site each time, so best to keep that in mind.
    You're way is funnier though. That would be a great misquote for a signature file. LOL
    "You are wasting our crawl budget!" -Matt Cutts, 2010


    It might even belong right in there with these other gems. LOL
    "640K of memory should be enough for anybody.'' -Bill Gates, 1981

    "There is no reason anyone in the right state of mind will want a computer in their home."
    -Ken Olson, President of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977




    And of course there's the classics:
    "I think there's a world market for maybe five computers."
    -Chairman of IBM, 1943

    "Computers in the future may weigh no more that one and a half tons."
    -Popular Mechanics, 1949

    "I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last the year."
    -Chief Business Editor, Prentis Hall, 1957
     
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  18. ┼blackrat┼

    ┼blackrat┼ Senior Member

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    LOL!

    Lemme quote one of BHW oldest member posts in this thread:

    Code:
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/blackhat-lounge/176531-most-senior-bhw-member.html
    Cracks me up.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  19. Extropy

    Extropy Jr. VIP Jr. VIP

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    Don't do this.

    Why would you build all those links to a 301 that you don't control? The URL shortener services recycle URLs and delete them regularly. Since it costs no real money to make a domain/subdomain, just host the redirect yourself. Total control...
     
  20. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Executive VIP Jr. VIP

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    Yeah that's a good point.

    The value of redirects is that all the backlink building that you do to a site doesn't have to go to waste if you decide to change your website. That's only possible if you have control of the redirect. Why build a lot of backlinks to a url that you can't ever edit. If the shortened url is pointing to a page that moves, you decide to start promoting something better, or the shortened link gets deleted, then all those backlinks become obsolete for you. If the backlinks are pointing to a url that you control then it's just a matter of editing the redirect and point it somewhere else.

    There's another thread on bhw talking about bit.ly that brought up the value of hosting your own shortener. Your post gives another reason that setting up your own link-shortener a good idea.