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301 redirect from new domain, does the linkjuice get passed through?

Discussion in 'Black Hat SEO' started by semilar, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    hey there,

    I've been reading a lot about ppl redirecting their old domains that had websites on it and links to a new site to take advantage of the backlinks.
    but what about the following scenario:
    I've got a brandnew domain or subdomain, redirect it to another site, and then do start link building to the brand new domain? Of course I want the site that my 301 redirects to get the link juice.

    Now one could argument that only a site which has gained thrust and authority will pass 301 link juice, while there is no reason a new domain that was only bought to redirect it should pass link juice (since the whole old site new domain scenario does not fit, why pass link juice then)?

    I know some of you guys buy domains just for redirecting them to your site and THEN blasting them, to circumvent akismet domain bans.
    Did you guys check if blasting a new domain that 301s to your money site really passes the link juice through?
     
  2. pk_69

    pk_69 Jr. VIP Jr. VIP Premium Member

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    301 passes pagerank - it is confirmed by G and by experience.
    Actually your point, that everyone is using it (and not any other redirects - 302, etc) also confirms this.

    301 redirect passes pagerank (to some extend discounted), the more page has it the more it passes.
     
  3. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    I am sure it does pass pagerank/link juice, but the question is, will it work with new domains also that google never saw having a website nor backlinks on it before the redirect?

    To me it would make sense for google to not pass linkjuice through a 301 if the domain that redirects never had any other purpose then to 301. Or are there any real world examples where it would hurt someone that is not doing it for seo/BH purposes? Sure, a redirect from www. to non www. on the same domain does make sense, but anything else, provided that the domain that redirects never had any other purpose then to redirect.
    hmm, tinyurl etc come to mind but they are domains that only redirect urls within the domain.

    I mean my point is why should a search engine pass linkjuice through a new domain whose backlinks where created after the 301? if there are no real non-seo uses, I would definately simply not pass link juice...

    It's not really proving anything if some ppl do the exact thing because they think its working. Might be they are using other link building strategies as well and they help in the rankings instead, who knows? I mean a lot of people build no more then 10 links per day because they fear the google sandbox - but that doesn't make that a fact either.:Eyecrazy:

    Did ANYONE test if:
    1. buying a new domain or creating a subdomain that never ever had a site on it before,
    2. redirecting that one,
    3. and only after that building links to the redirect domain
    4. linkjuice got passed through?
    We DO know that 301 generally passes link juice, but the question is, does it apply to this scenario as well.
     
  4. madhornet

    madhornet Registered Member

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    The answer you are looking for to your question(s) is YES!
     
  5. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    YES, the linkjuice is passed through even through new domains without ever having any content on their own or YES google is not passing linkjuice in that case because it makes no real-nonseo-world sense? :Eyecrazy:

    And is this from personal experience?

    please clarify.
     
  6. craigslistguy

    craigslistguy Regular Member

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    YES google passes 301 linkjuice.

    The questions to you are, did you build backlinks to the site you are 301 redirecting?

    If not, then wtf makes you think you automatically get "linkjuice" from somewhere?
     
  7. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    I guess you did not understand me right.
    I DO know that a 301 passes link juice, generally.
    I DO know that it can only pass link juice from links that point to it.
    Never questioned that.

    The question was:


    • Given one registers a NEW domain that never had any content on it (hasn't been registered before)
    • Given that this domain never had any links pointing to it
    • Given this domain gets setup to 301 to another domain, without putting content on it first or building links
    • Given that you ONLY start building links (including the FIRST LINK EVER TO THAT REDIRECTING DOMAIN) after putting the 301 in place

    So, for THIS SPECIAL CASE:
    Does the 301 pass link juice, since its a 301 redirect?
    or
    Does the 301 not pass link juice because this causality chain only happens for seo purposes so google does not count it? I mean what is the sense for google to count it if this behaviour does not happen in the normal web world? I can not recall even one normal circumstance where this behaviour makes sense besides for SEO.

    Did anyone test these special circumstances?
     
  8. craigslistguy

    craigslistguy Regular Member

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    Again i asK, "how do you magically get linkjuice by just placing a 301 redirect" (FYI this is what it sounds like, you have no clue what a 301 redirect is/does)? IF THERE ARE NO BACKLINKS (meaning links pointing to your "new domain that you are now trying to 301 redirect") TO YOUR SITE THERE IS NO LINKJUICE TO CARRY OVER ON A 301 REDIRECT

    Here is a process to do in your head next time, BL=Linkjuice=Juice able to get carried over on a 301 redirect.

    And why in the world would you build backlinks TO A SITE THAT IS GETTING 301 REDIRECTED?

    Sites that get 301 redirected dont show up on SERPS.


    So to RECAP:

    You have to have BL generated FOR THE SITE your are 301 redirecting in order for linkjuice to "spill over" to the domain it is redirected too.

    And again building BL for a website that is in 301 redirect mode is POINTLESS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  9. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    Um. You still don't get me :D I do know that when there are no links to the domain that redirects there is no link juice to be passed on. So:
    new domain, no backlinks, then redirect to my money site = no link juice. I know that, and that was not what I was asking.

    To pass on the link juice! :D And i.e. to prevent an akismet domain ban (see below)

    Right. And I don't need them to. I want to push the site up in the serps that the 301 points to.

    Right. I did write that in my last post:
    "Given that you ONLY start building links (including the FIRST LINK EVER TO THAT REDIRECTING DOMAIN) after putting the 301 in place"
    meaning... after the 301 I start building links to it. But ONLY AFTER the 301, and the other criteria I wrote.

    Pointless for the redirecting domain, yes, but I do want to push the site that the redirect goes to. And it makes sense for preventing an akismet domain ban.
    And I am sure there are more cases where this might be a good idea, since the sites that link to that domain have no idea where the link actually points to(at least not without checking first).
    I am not saying its a good idea for standard link building, but that's not the point.

    What I mean is given the special circumstances I wrote before, if google classifies the 301 different then lets say a 301 from a domain that once had content on it, and had links pointing it prior to the 301. The "standard 301 setup".

    so:
    New domain -> no content before/now + no links before/now -> 301 redirect -> THEN building links to it = linkjuice passed over?
    vs
    New/old domain, had once content on it that google saw, has/had links to it, then 301 redirect. Obviously this works as everyone is doing it.

    Think about it: who does the first case except for SEO, i.e. as a shield for blog commenting to circumvent a akismet domain ban. So if I where google, I would not pass any link juice through a 301 from a domain who's only purpose it ever was to be a 301. I can't think of any non-SEO reason for doing this (unlike a 301 from a domain that once had content on it / links pointing to it)

    I know that some people do this for the akismet domain ban reason, but what I am asking is if they actually checked if the linkjuice gets passed down in that special case.

    do you know what I mean?
     
  10. MagicMike

    MagicMike Power Member

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    I had a client who was ranking well for keywords in one city... 6 year old keyword rich (geo-targeted) domain; 4K backlinks, medium difficult niche.

    He moved, we bought a brand new keyword rich geo-targeted domain for the new city and 301'd the old domain to the new.

    Result?

    We ranked the new city domain (which was MUCH larger and more competitive) on the #1 spot within 60 days! AND the funny thing is... the new site ALSO ranks on the first page still for the old search term as well, even though the new site has nothing to do with that city anymore! It's been that way for about 6 months now!

    Anyway, in this case the 301 from an established site to a brand new domain seems to have worked wonders.
     
  11. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    @MagicMike

    great to hear this, but I mean something different. Let's take your clients new website for example. It has the 301 from the old site that passes link juice, and I bet it has a lot of links now pointing directly to the new site.

    Now lets say i.e. you want to do some blog spamming but you are worried that your clients domain gets banned by akismet in the process (yea I know it might not be a good idea at all to do a blast at your clients site directly, but lets just assume its ok for the example).
    So you think hey, if you buy i.e. a brandnew info domain that did never exist before (no backlinks, no content ever), you 301 it to your clients site, it will protect you from akismet banning your clients site directly, and who cares about the info domain anyways? So you do exactly that and after that you start building comment backlinks pointing to that info domain.

    Now the question is, since it looks quite obvious to me and unnatural that a new domains first and only purpose ever is to 301 to another domain, and only after the 301 all over sudden a lot of backlinks to that info domain appear, if google might handle the 301 different in this case then the standard case(domain, had content on it, had links pointing to it, gets redirected to a new domain) you mentioned?
     
  12. dunk15us

    dunk15us Regular Member

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    I've bought new .info with nothing on it, and just spammed the crap out of with a 301 redirect to say site B. Site B's webmaster tools links shot up exponentially over the next week or so and started to rank better. So if you're doing it ONLY cause you want to avoid the askimet ban then it is a good idea, however, it is essentially the same thing as blasting a new money site directly. I'm pretty sure THAT answered your question...
     
  13. MagicMike

    MagicMike Power Member

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    @ semilar

    Ahhh... now I understand... sorry it took me practically the whole thread to finally get the question! I'd be interested in hearing if/how many people have any experience with this.

    Sorry for the confusion...
     
  14. madhornet

    madhornet Registered Member

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    ------------------

    This one:YES, the linkjuice is passed through even through new domains without ever having any content on their own

    and yes I have personal experience. I have a guaranteed way for you to get your own YES answer so you will not have to rely on my experience! Do it and watch what happens.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. semilar

    semilar Regular Member

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    Yap, it did. thanks! One question though, I thought when blasting a 301ed domain you can't see these indirect links showing up in webmaster tools / yahoo for the targeted domain?
    At least for yahoo I've been told so?

    @Magicmike

    np, seems like I have caused a lot of confusion :D must be my confusing writing style...

    @madhornet

    Thanks for your answer. Actually I started doing exactly that prior to starting the thread. :sombrero: I didn't see results thats why I am asking. Do you see the links pointing to your redirecting domain on webmaster tools and yahoo for the domain thats the target?

    I have yet to see any links showing up on yahoo and didn't see any effect yet, thats why I am uncertain. :rolleyes:
     
  16. resistosai111

    resistosai111 Power Member

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    linkjuice was passing but some kinds of dancing with my site the whole month sometimes it will on top sometimes it will on the 6 position after a month my 301 redirect domain deindexed and i see a message in webmaster tools that we have detected mynewdomain instead of old with 301 redirect again my site main keyword goes to 100 position what to do now ?