How to prevent being scammed when buying a private software?

[Badbotbad]

I have been in contact with a freelancer who is going to develop a private bot for me. He want upfront payment through PayPal with all of the bot features listed in the invoice for both partners safety. I mean if all features are listed in the Paypal invoice and he fails to complete the bot, shouldn't it be easy for me to win the Paypal case and get a refund? Or can he just say that he sent me the bot and I am lying and keep all the money easily?

Is this the way to go for me as a buyer or should I force him to use a middle man?

 

[Des_cartes]

Never pay the full amount upfront when possible use a middle man/escrow service

 

[Badbotbad]

Never pay the full amount upfront when possible use a middle man/escrow service

Is there any middle man service that you can recommend?

 

[Badbotbad]

Its also probably worth mentioning that this bot is in the lower $xxx range so I am not ready to spend a lot of money for an escrow service. $50 tops.

 

[Des_cartes]

Never used them but https://www.escrow.com/ fees starts at $25.

 

[Badbotbad]

Never used them but escrowdotcom fees starts at $25.

Seller claims that he would not like to use an escrow service because they are taking 1-2 weeks to deliver the payment. Sounds a bit fishy, but the seller showed me screenshots of his other work and it was looking really good.

 

[ZestTech]

Use Upwork/guru for safe payment. Escrow system available there. Using Escrow, you can put amount in site i.e Upwork/guru and you can release after completion of job. Or you both can agree on terms and work accordingly using escrow.

 

[Sindragosa]

Use Upwork/guru for safe payment. Escrow system available there. Using Escrow, you can put amount in site i.e Upwork/guru and you can release after completion of job. Or you both can agree on terms and work accordingly using escrow.

Seller claims he doesn't trust third party escrow services because he was scammed on Freelancer when he was doing a job for a customer. He refuses to work with any escrow service because fear of being scammed. Sounds like he is the scammer here, right? Escrow services should be pretty damn safe for both buyers and sellers.

 

[silverleafy]

yes , he will scam you 100 %

 

[Tozzy]

Yes he is a scammer 100%.
Even if he doesn't like to use escrow (although you should stop even talking to him after it) he has numerous ways of prooving his work, from showing you a solid video of the bot in action to providing you with a demo version of it.
Where did you find that guy btw? If he is from here his username should be exposed as a suspected swindler.

 

[Compazz]

op the developer writing that in his invoice not only will it not protect you in terms of dispute but is also able to take away your buyer protection from paypal as it is digital this is the first thing they will tell you incase of a dispute....depending on the amount involve in this transaction i surgest you forced him to use peopleperhour.com or freelancer.com create the project and award it to him that way the funds are only disbursed to him if he did the job and you review it dont take a risk of loosing your money trust me i have lost thousands from similar mistake and i can tell your about to fall into a trap

 

[hemobemo]

Don't pay everything up front but if you choose to pay them through Paypal pay him as a business service because its easier to dispute if he doesn't pull through.

 

[CustomBotShop]

Pay some up front and some on completion.

 

[wizard04]

its difficult for the two sides.
On one side you have a dev you never worked before and he is asking your for the money upfront and you think you will scam him and on the other side you have a dev that had never worked with you or have any ties to you and he is thinking that you might scam him.

If the seller is from BHW and is well known the risk is still there but is minimal but for him is bigger as you are a brand new member here.
I personally don't have any problem giving even 100% of the money upfront but the dev must be recommend by personas I trust and they had worked with him/she before. I am not saying you should give the money upfront but the golden middle is 50% upfront and 50% when the project is done, this way your risk is minimal and the same for him.

 

[Badbotbad]

its difficult for the two sides.
On one side you have a dev you never worked before and he is asking your for the money upfront and you think you will scam him and on the other side you have a dev that had never worked with you or have any ties to you and he is thinking that you might scam him.

If the seller is from BHW and is well known the risk is still there but is minimal but for him is bigger as you are a brand new member here.
I personally don't have any problem giving even 100% of the money upfront but the dev must be recommend by personas I trust and they had worked with him/she before. I am not saying you should give the money upfront but the golden middle is 50% upfront and 50% when the project is done, this way your risk is minimal and the same for him.

Couldn't agree more. I told him I would pay him upfront if he showed me a good portoflio or had someone with authority to vouch for him. Since he had like 20 posts on BHW and the guy that vouched for him was a completely stranger that he added to our Skype conversation who told me that this guy was clearly the best and totally reliable... He didn't have a BHW account cause he doesn't use forums, but in 2014 he claimed that he was registered on the dark web. Facepalm.

 

[handmadebots]

I am a developer and this is how I usually deal with (new customers, old ones I pretty much trust, and there is a usually a different approch for them) it:

1. 20-40% before I start working on the software. This is after I've done my research and I'm 100% positive it can be done.
2. Once I'm ready, I let the client test the software through teamviewer. Sometimes I just send him a video demo, but teamviewer is better.
3. When the client checked the software, and everything is ok, he makes the rest of the payment.
4. Once the 2nd/last payment is sent, I send him a download link with the software.

This is usually for deals < $500.
If the cost is > $1k, you can follow the same idea, but make more transactions in between. For example, 2nd payment when the GUI is ready, 3rd when the functionalities are ready, etc.

Good luck !

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

Couldn't agree more. I told him I would pay him upfront if he showed me a good portoflio or had someone with authority to vouch for him. Since he had like 20 posts on BHW and the guy that vouched for him was a completely stranger that he added to our Skype conversation who told me that this guy was clearly the best and totally reliable... He didn't have a BHW account cause he doesn't use forums, but in 2014 he claimed that he was registered on the dark web. Facepalm.

OP, you joined the forum on 21/02, so do you have another account here? Why didn't you use your real account to post this thread?

 

[BlackOpzFX]

Do a standard 50/50. 50% down/50% on completion. Somethings fishy if he has a problem with those terms.

 

[Badbotbad]

I am a developer and this is how I usually deal with (new customers, old ones I pretty much trust, and there is a usually a different approch for them) it:

1. 20-40% before I start working on the software. This is after I've done my research and I'm 100% positive it can be done.
2. Once I'm ready, I let the client test the software through teamviewer. Sometimes I just send him a video demo, but teamviewer is better.
3. When the client checked the software, and everything is ok, he makes the rest of the payment.
4. Once the 2nd/last payment is sent, I send him a download link with the software.

This is usually for deals < $500.
If the cost is > $1k, you can follow the same idea, but make more transactions in between. For example, 2nd payment when the GUI is ready, 3rd when the functionalities are ready, etc.

Good luck !

That is how I would gladly deal with the situation from a buyers perspective. IF the bot creator has some kind of authority, which you have, just look at your account. Looking serious and professional. Which is not the case with the other bot creator I was in contact with.

OP, you joined the forum on 21/02, so do you have another account here? Why didn't you use your real account to post this thread?

You remind me of the Wisconsin guy with numbers replacing some letters in the username who had exactly the same avatar as you. Is that a preset avatar that is popular to use or did you get a name change? Either way I have been here for years and I did not want to post this thread on my main account simply because I want to keep that account on a professional level. On this account I can create any threads I want and pretty much type whatever I want without being scared of making a fool out of myself.

I know this account looks like spam, but that shouldn't stop the bot creator from wanting to make the deal with a middle man / escrow service.

Do a standard 50/50. 50% down/50% on completion. Somethings fishy if he has a problem with those terms.

He agreed to do exactly this but that is still a great opportunity for him if he want to steal my money.

 

[Wilson Grant Fisk]

...
You remind me of the Wisconsin guy with numbers replacing some letters in the username who had exactly the same avatar as you. Is that a preset avatar that is popular to use or did you get a name change? Either way I have been here for years and I did not want to post this thread on my main account simply because I want to keep that account on a professional level. On this account I can create any threads I want and pretty much type whatever I want without being scared of making a fool out of myself.

I know this account looks like spam, but that shouldn't stop the bot creator from wanting to make the deal with a middle man / escrow service.
...

As you have been here for years then you should know that having more than 1 account is against the rules.
The Bot maker looks dodgy but at the present time so do you.