For Those Who Doubt Global Warming...

[jazzc]

I guess you and them know better than 90%+ of scientists then?

Science doesn't work by polls, this isn't a popularity contest and there's no voting for the queen. Btw, a recent poll in the Middle Ages scientific community showed that 99.9% of them believe the Earth is flat and humans are to blame for slight disturbances of the flatness because of the structures they've built on top of it.

 

[jazzc]

Here's a university study from 700 scientists, with 92% of them believing climate change is man made:

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/1...sessionid=893AAA8946476778E31859262CB06DE3.c1

But of course I'm sure you have more knowledge and experience on the matter

See my post above.

But please let me know what psychological factor is it that urges you to take a position when you are only able to parrot stuff instead of making data based arguments. I am really interested in knowing that.

 

[Pigsy]

See my post above.

But please let me know what psychological factor is it that urges you to take a position when you are only able to parrot stuff instead of making data based arguments. I am really interested in knowing that.

This is general discussion on an IM forum. I don't have the knowledge or experience to make a complete argument as to why global warming is real. I don't even think experts could do that in any sort of reasonable amount of time. I imagine it's an extremely complex subject, with thousands of varying factors. That's why as a society we generally take the advice of people who actually know what they're talking about and who dedicate their lives to finding out the truth. Like when you're sick, you go to a doctor and you listen to his or her opinion.

Like I said, there is a simple number that proves just how badly we're screwing the environment in relation to air quality. That's 4,000+ Chinese people dieing every day from air pollution. You don't need to be a climate scientist to say something is very wrong in that number

 

[Ambitious12]

Save Trees and stop Global Warming.
What I read in my childhood.

 

[wowhaxor]

I guess you and them know better than 90%+ of scientists then?

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...awn from the data, that people argue against.

 

[Hawkster]

I have zero knowledge on this subject, probably should be ashamed of myself.

Just wanted to comment, saying that im thoroughly enjoying this thread opcorn:

Please continue!

 

[Pigsy]

I didn't say that, I didn't even take a position. In fact I don't make political arguments on BHW there are enough shitty corners of the Internet for that. I was just saying the claim that people don't believe in climate change is a silly talking point. That's an argument I've never heard in real life. Peoples argument is that the climate has always been changing, warming since the last ice age, and either it is not or mostly not human caused.

It is the one said who says "climate change denier" that perpetuates the myth that it's a denial of climate change. Obviously you can't deny data/facts. It's a denial of human causation of climate change, which is a conclusion drawn from the data, that people argue against.

I don't see how this is a political argument. What does it have to do with politics?

Fact is I doubt anyone on here has that much experience or qualifications to make any real substantial argument for or against the matter. We're all just talking in general.

It's an extremely complex issue and it's very difficult to monitor and draw conclusions from. There are thousands and thousands of scientists around the World working on this every day and they still face massive difficulties. So the notion some random poster on BHW has all the answers or can present a definitive solution is quite frankly rather stupid.

Everyone keeps ignoring my very basic point though... Which is the huge death tolls in countries such as China from air pollution, which is 100% man made. That is something that can't really be argued against and it all ties in to climate change and environmental pollution

 

[jazzc]

This is general discussion on an IM forum. I don't have the knowledge or experience to make a complete argument as to why global warming is real. I don't even think experts could do that in any sort of reasonable amount of time. I imagine it's an extremely complex subject, with thousands of varying factors. That's why as a society we generally take the advice of people who actually know what they're talking about and who dedicate their lives to finding out the truth. Like when you're sick, you go to a doctor and you listen to his or her opinion.

So despite your lack of knowledge on the subject, we're supposed to just suck it up just because you read somewhere by someone whom you consider an authority beyond any doubt that so is so.

Like I said, there is a simple number that proves just how badly we're screwing the environment in relation to air quality. That's 4,000+ Chinese people dieing every day from air pollution.

And exactly what does that have to do with global warming? Oh, yeah, right, nothing but let's just throw it there because emotions.

 

[charliebrooker]

I don't think the debate is really about if the planet is warming, it's around how much and what is causing it.

My question is:

If those corpses are now being uncovered, then it must have been just as warm prior to their covering?

 

[wowhaxor]

Any issue that tends to drop along party lines in an argument is political IMO. I was just pointing out that argument that one side is denying climate change exists is false and as bad as an argument that climate change doesn't exist would be. As long as that's the biggest attack point the argument won't go anywhere because it's not based in reality. That's how this argument always goes, "but climate is changing you can't deny facts" when nobody did in the first place.

That's my pet peeve in this argument, I hate that line. By the way I do believe climate change is at least hastened by humans but I also don't believe the science supports the conclusion that we are the primary causation although as a resourceful species we could at the very least do quite a bit more to slow or address it. So since you've drawn me in there you have it, I'm somewhere in between the two sides on this issue.

 

[qrazy]

I don't see how this is a political argument. What does it have to do with politics?

Fact is I doubt anyone on here has that much experience or qualifications to make any real substantial argument for or against the matter. We're all just talking in general.

It's an extremely complex issue and it's very difficult to monitor and draw conclusions from. There are thousands and thousands of scientists around the World working on this every day and they still face massive difficulties. So the notion some random poster on BHW has all the answers or can present a definitive solution is quite frankly rather stupid.

Everyone keeps ignoring my very basic point though... Which is the huge death tolls in countries such as China from air pollution, which is 100% man made. That is something that can't really be argued against and it all ties in to climate change and environmental pollution

I thought Air pollution and Global Warming are two different things. Air pollution kills people regardless of whether the climate changes or not

 

[OldSalt]

I am both a man of science/math and faith. (Anyone that's read my older posts know that I am not shy about my Christian beliefs and my background in science and math actually reinforces my Faith - aka, I can't come up with a number with enough zeros behind it for all of this to have happened by pure chance without a God behind it). and no, this is not an invitation to a debate about my faith vs yours or lack of it. Each person is welcome to their beliefs - something I feel very strongly about.

All of that being said - I can't really say which side I'm on concerning the whole 'global warming or climate change' debate. It's an obvious fact that the earth has grown warmer and weather more extreme since the time we've been documenting it. The real question is how much of it is caused by what we've been doing? In the grand scheme of things, we've been keeping records on overall weather for a few minutes compared to the age of the world itself. Our combined knowledge of what is causing this increase is so infantile that it's impossible to say with any certainty that we are or are not directly causing the change. All of this could be part of a 5,000, 10,000 or even longer cycle that we simply don't have enough data to detect.

I also absolutely believe that this earth is our HOME and that it's our responsibility to take good care of it, to the best of our ability. It is our responsibility to find ways to improve how we live to be good stewards and find ways to reduce our potential impact to what is going on. It's also essential for us to find improved ways to produce energy, move people from point A to point B, and just live day to day without using limited resources that produce harmful by-products. My belief in science makes me think that we will do this, but like everything, it takes time and money.

Just my thoughts... you are welcome to your own,
OS

 

[jazzc]

Save Trees and stop Global Warming.
What I read in my childhood.

There's 3 trillion trees in the world and we are cutting 10 billion of them per year, which is 1/300 or 0.33% per year. I wouldn't worry that much about the trees at this point

 

[wowhaxor]

I am both a man of science/math and faith. (Anyone that's read my older posts know that I am not shy about my Christian beliefs and my background in science and math actually reinforces my Faith - aka, I can't come up with a number with enough zeros behind it for all of this to have happened by pure chance without a God behind it). and no, this is not an invitation to a debate about my faith vs yours or lack of it. Each person is welcome to their beliefs - something I feel very strongly about.

All of that being said - I can't really say which side I'm on concerning the whole 'global warming or climate change' debate. It's an obvious fact that the earth has grown warmer and weather more extreme since the time we've been documenting it. The real question is how much of it is caused by what we've been doing? In the grand scheme of things, we've been keeping records on overall weather for a few minutes compared to the age of the world itself. Our combined knowledge of what is causing this increase is so infantile that it's impossible to say with any certainty that we are or are not directly causing the change. All of this could be part of a 5,000, 10,000 or even longer cycle that we simply don't have enough data to detect.

I also absolutely believe that this earth is our HOME and that it's our responsibility to take good care of it, to the best of our ability. It is our responsibility to find ways to improve how we live to be good stewards and find ways to reduce our potential impact to what is going on. It's also essential for us to find improved ways to produce energy, move people from point A to point B, and just live day to day without using limited resources that produce harmful by-products. My belief in science makes me think that we will do this, but like everything, it takes time and money.

Just my thoughts... you are welcome to your own,
OS

Well said, that's pretty much exactly where I stand... Except I'm neither a man of science nor faith

 

[SoccerLover]

Soon BHW gonna be in trouble.

Apricot, Jazz and OS will head towards NASA in upcoming days.
Multi-Talented Guys

 

[jazzc]

Soon BHW gonna be in trouble.

Apricot, Jazz and OS will head towards NASA in upcoming days.
Multi-Talented Guys

NASA's having a bit of trouble with finances lately, you sure that's a wise career choice?

 

[SoccerLover]

NASA's having a bit of trouble with finances lately, you sure that's a wise career choice?

No issue's, OS will deal with Shit list Rule #4 and will solve everything over there
Soon They will be at the top

 

[BHW-News]

NASA's having a bit of trouble with finances lately, you sure that's a wise career choice?

NASA have been blowing their budget on telling us all about how awesome a manned Mars expedition would be. Mind you, I'm fully on board with their efforts to improve the matt-damon:mars ratio.

 

[SoccerLover]

NASA have been blowing their budget on telling us all about how awesome a manned Mars expedition would be. Mind you, I'm fully on board with their efforts to improve the matt-damon:mars ratio.

Interested to see you, jazz and OS got interest in this field too & with a significant knowledge.
I Repeat Multi-Talented Guy's
I hope Wiz would also add his interest too over here.

 

[qrazy]

Interested to see you, jazz and OS got interest in this field too & with a significant knowledge.
I Repeat Multi-Talented Guy's
I hope Wiz would also add his interest too over here.

Don't believe them, today's their day off, they're group trolling us