MayDay - What Are the Quality Signals?

Links from certain geographic area may help you rank for local search. Just look how many US sites rank on Google UK. And how many English sites rank well on Google Indonesia.

And I do think links from pages in other languages will still have some value. Sometimes when blogging in Bahasa, I still link to trusted foreign sources because, like it or not, there are no local counterpart.

I agree with the geo-targeted links. Seen it time and again not just with my sites but with others.

I don't deny any link not having value. Some will just have more than others. I haven't done cross linking of various languages so I can only theorize based on what I have seen.
 
An algo cannot tell the difference between a mispell and a brandname, or a popular slang phrase etc.

Well the algo CAN tell the diff between the misspell and brandname. Just try to misspell the search term and the algo will prompt you a correct term right there
 
Well the algo CAN tell the diff between the misspell and brandname. Just try to misspell the search term and the algo will prompt you a correct term right there

That is only if it already knows the brand. Many of the major brands are already well known. It is quite different if it's a lessor known brand. Suppose I have a brand called Maxabuck, and there is a mispell of the brand when someone put in the query as Maxabuc. Google would have no idea unless I was huge, that I was looking for Maxabuck. There are literally hundreds of thousands of terms like this out there.

Besides this, I have noticed that Googles mispell attempts are more like guesses rather than knowing often times. It will always come up with 'did you mean...' with some variation of what I searched for, when what I was searching was exactly what I meant, and the results they often bring up on those alternative queries are no better if not exactly the same as my original one. This is all in an attempt to improve the user experience as they say. It's more along the lines of trying to help you along in your own queries.
 
Perhaps this link is worth a look:

(I'm not allowed to post URL yet, so search Google for seo site review from experts google io 2010)

In it, Matt mentioned:

And, and one piece of advice I would like to leave you with is if you can put more work into a single site as opposed to not very much work into 50 sites, that can make a really big difference.

Later, he confirmed that micro sites are a bad idea most of the time. I didn't understand what he meant by "most of the time" but...

It?s sort of an underselling way to say don?t make 500 different sites, concentrate more on making one good site that has branding and stuff like that.

And when it comes to MayDay, unfortunately, he only mentioned that they are looking for "high quality sites" and leaved it at that.
 
Perhaps this link is worth a look:

(I'm not allowed to post URL yet, so search Google for seo site review from experts google io 2010)

In it, Matt mentioned:

Later, he confirmed that micro sites are a bad idea most of the time. I didn't understand what he meant by "most of the time" but...

And when it comes to MayDay, unfortunately, he only mentioned that they are looking for "high quality sites" and leaved it at that.

Nice find.. and up to date too.. The stuff you are talking about is a 1hr video that was released. I found a site that has a transcript version of the interview as well if you prefer written.

Code:
cheatad.com/2010/06/06/transcript-of-seo-site-advice-from-the-experts-from-google-io-2010/

Some good stuff in there!
 
I dont know if Im wrong but it looks to me that google changed the way backlinks are counted. It looks to me that the backlinking sites language only have the power to push you in that corresponding google. If you have a backlink at a english page you will have an effect in google.com. But if you backlink from a english page to a german page you will have an effect in google.com too only.

So it looks to me that it doesnt work anymore to backlink from english sites to german ones when you want to go up in google.de. It needs to be german backlinking pages.

For example I backlinked the last time to some german pages. I wondered why nothing happened in google.de and took a look in google.com. There was the good ranking. Before google.com was less good all the time.

So maybe im wrong but it looks to me that you now have to target specific google-country-version with backlinking from corresponding language sites.

But maybe im misinterpreting... :)
 
Sebastian I see the same happening with my backlinks effort, but I don't only see it for that, even when the site is english and its for google.co.uk the .com links don't seem to be as valueable anymore as the .co.uk links
 
I dont know if Im wrong but it looks to me that google changed the way backlinks are counted. It looks to me that the backlinking sites language only have the power to push you in that corresponding google. If you have a backlink at a english page you will have an effect in google.com. But if you backlink from a english page to a german page you will have an effect in google.com too only.

So it looks to me that it doesnt work anymore to backlink from english sites to german ones when you want to go up in google.de. It needs to be german backlinking pages.

For example I backlinked the last time to some german pages. I wondered why nothing happened in google.de and took a look in google.com. There was the good ranking. Before google.com was less good all the time.

So maybe im wrong but it looks to me that you now have to target specific google-country-version with backlinking from corresponding language sites.

But maybe im misinterpreting... :)


I haven't studied this effect, but it makes a lot of sense. Great contribution to take into consideration for link building efforts. I guess we can call this Googles Patriot Act. :) Support your fellow countrymens sites, and we will support you. Based on this, we want to add / subtract some things to our link building efforts:


  1. If your site is a country specific/geo targetted site, attempt to find as many country domain extention matches.
  2. If you want to go after google.com, avoid other country domains. Stick to the .com .net .org .info .edu .mil .gov .us .biz .name type urls.
  3. Make sure the site you are getting links from also has the same language as your site.

This certainly falls into the video talking about getting better quality links. Now I don't think the links country for zero, all links matter, but say you are getting links from a forum in a different country extention with say 300 signature links, you are nothing going to get as much from it as you would normally expect. This is all just observation now, but it would be nice to gather more data on this. I will see if I can turn up anything related to this later today.

Thanks to both of you though for bringing this to light.
 
It is probably a function of charset encoding and/or top level domain. I've noticed in advanced google searches that explicit text still appears in strict safe searches and chinese floods the results in english only searches.

Google is still very broken in many respects... the old google had more relevant results and was more difficult to exploit rankings... In past 3 days I've seen my SERPs hit page 1 again for thousands of keywords... Took a couple weeks of recoding but I'm back in business... I'll bet it takes more than a couple weeks for google to shake things up that much... So google is losing the arms race... I guess content isn't king... it was brand all along Google... content is easy. Public name recognition is hard. Having a publicly traded company with a respectable P/E ratio is hard. Winning an oscar is hard. Being in good standing with BBB is hard... Having television commercials is hard... If those were factors then good luck gaming the algo... Maybe I should be competing with google... I certainly know how to yank their pants down.


I dont know if Im wrong but it looks to me that google changed the way backlinks are counted. It looks to me that the backlinking sites language only have the power to push you in that corresponding google. If you have a backlink at a english page you will have an effect in google.com. But if you backlink from a english page to a german page you will have an effect in google.com too only.

So it looks to me that it doesnt work anymore to backlink from english sites to german ones when you want to go up in google.de. It needs to be german backlinking pages.

For example I backlinked the last time to some german pages. I wondered why nothing happened in google.de and took a look in google.com. There was the good ranking. Before google.com was less good all the time.

So maybe im wrong but it looks to me that you now have to target specific google-country-version with backlinking from corresponding language sites.

But maybe im misinterpreting... :)
 
It is probably a function of charset encoding and/or top level domain. I've noticed in advanced google searches that explicit text still appears in strict safe searches and chinese floods the results in english only searches.

Google is still very broken in many respects... the old google had more relevant results and was more difficult to exploit rankings... In past 3 days I've seen my SERPs hit page 1 again for thousands of keywords... Took a couple weeks of recoding but I'm back in business... I'll bet it takes more than a couple weeks for google to shake things up that much... So google is losing the arms race... I guess content isn't king... it was brand all along Google... content is easy. Public name recognition is hard. Having a publicly traded company with a respectable P/E ratio is hard. Winning an oscar is hard. Being in good standing with BBB is hard... Having television commercials is hard... If those were factors then good luck gaming the algo... Maybe I should be competing with google... I certainly know how to yank their pants down.

I was thinking the same thing about the page encoding, but its easier just to eyeball and see that a site is not the same language. :) Google is likely using the encoding mechanism to help in this regard.

You are right about branding. A few years ago I started seeing and hearing about that trend. Google loves branding in every respect. I have been hearing this more and more in their videos and at conferences. Beyond the content, it just makes sense.. especially to a company whose bread and butter is sell advertising mostly to BRANDS.

This is part of why I have been focusing more on brandable domains and less on keyword match domains. I believe as we move forward, this branding theme is going to become more and more prevalent. All of a sudden, the whole keyword match domain thing will be over after google has identified all the sites that have created their own brand, and drop all keyword match domains out in favor of the brands that target those terms.

In the video I cited above, Matt talked about how they are trying to make google operate faster in identifying new domain/site names. Right now, they take a month to really figure out what your site is above. He said himself they are trying to make this operate much faster. I would think the reason for the need for that speed is in order to once again identify a branding, beyond the obvious stuff they are doing now with categorizing sites.
 
Sebastian I see the same happening with my backlinks effort, but I don't only see it for that, even when the site is english and its for google.co.uk the .com links don't seem to be as valueable anymore as the .co.uk links

Then its probably more of a geolocation-thing. Maybe google weights these backlinks in the area the backlinks came from. So when the backlinking site is located in, whatever, latvia, and you backlink from a site hosted in spain then this site will rank in spain. Maybe its even on a smaller scale. Something like... when the backlink is from this city then the people from this city like this site.

I wonder if that even counts for a site in a country that is targetting another country. Will a backlink from this site push the countries serps where the backlinking site is hosted on or will it push the target country of the backlinked site?

Whatever... I think I now know where to go... :)
 
Been checking out this theard about html tags now i dont know if they really do pay an important factor for ranking in todays google and i just wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts about the use and importants of these tags?
 
Been checking out this theard about html tags now i dont know if they really do pay an important factor for ranking in todays google and i just wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts about the use and importants of these tags?

Yes.. they are relevant.

There is a new thread that just started that gives you a checklist of things to consider when building your site thanks to ipopbb.

Here it is: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackh...er-people-doing-response-caffeine-mayday.html

I highly recommend you check out this checklist. It is quite something and is excellent if you are starting an ecommerce site.
 

Nice share.. I read this when it came out... but something that is not clear about what they say is their definition of 'quality'.

They talk about using niche specific 'quality' directories to get links, but as one commenter pointed out, how do you determine if its a good quality directory vs no good. If they offer paid submission, does that count as a paid link which the repeat again in that article as a no no?

As others pointed out, the forum route gives you lots of nofollow links, and to play by Googles rules/word, those are useless (most of you know by now I don't agree with that, but lets take what Google says for what it says analysing this peice of info :) ).

If you took their recommendations to heart. You would basically end up with a bunch of links that are low in value overall and wouldn't get you anywhere in rankings. They seem to suggest that people will link to you if you are good, but the fact is, people linking to sites accounts for a very very low % of the total number of linkers out there. They know this. It's a statistical fact. Their article even said that any impact some creative content that gets linked to a lot (ie linkbait) won't last for long, so don't count on it. If you wish on a star though, some how, with a pinch of ferry dust, you will get others linking to you. C'mon. Do you do this? I don't! If I find something I will pass it in an IM to a friend, doesn't mean I will put a link up on one of my sites for it. Sure I have posted a few links to sites here, but certainly masked them so there is zero impact.

I am sure you have heard of the term 'linkerati'. Basically it identifies fellow webmasters/site owners who hold the big guns in links offering value from sites that have become authorities. For years this linkerati has been talked about, and even Matt Cutts himself talked about the future of link building being in their hands, and they like it that way. It's the geeks who detest any kind of commerical element that will link to something they like. This doesn't do anything for anybody attempting to run a business, get affiliate sales, or sell any type of product service they offer. It's a fraternity of nerds, and the cool kids with money aren't welcome. Revenge of the Nerds V - We Own The Internet. :eek:

Some basics that make up a quality link, by their standards would suggest something like this:


  1. Absolutely no paid advertising options anywhere on the site, and if there is, the site is using javascript and/or nofollow and clearly identifying it as paid.
  2. Site must be within the same genre as your site. How do you figure that out? Just search for your keywords and those sites that come up, are it.
  3. Site offers quality content that is not generated. Or at least has a % that is human edited (ie. news sites syndicate all kinds of stories they never wrote).
  4. There is an indication that an editor moderates commentary/content
  5. They do not have a bunch of spammy links coming to them

These are about all I can think of as clear cut quality signals when it comes to getting links from a certain site. Can you think of others?

*UPDATE* - I created this new thread in order to explore the question of Link Velocity further. In it I detail exactly what I would do in starting a link campaign. It relates to this, but I thought the topic deserved it's own thread, and I was asked to talk about it more.
Here it is: Link Velocity - What Works Best!!? THIS!!

Share Your Experiences! :)
 
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Wouldn't you think that taking the long tail keyword searches out of Google hampers the expansion of Google considering the internet is growing by 30% every year?

I mean come on, they have got to be expanding somewhere else. I would think that they are becoming more geo specific or expanding their variables in another avenue.. They've got to be.

They didn't take the long tail out so much, as they consolidated the algo work going on with them into one, treating the main terms with the same also as the long tail terms. It means they are now treating them with equal importance to the 1-3 keyword terms.

You are right that they are expanding, and we see it everyday in that little left side bar in the search results. If you want to know where much of the search went, that can offer a hint as well. :)

I have a nice handful of almonds for you if you are interested. I know you have worked for peanuts, but I am the generous type. :)
 
I dont know if Im wrong but it looks to me that google changed the way backlinks are counted. It looks to me that the backlinking sites language only have the power to push you in that corresponding google. If you have a backlink at a english page you will have an effect in google.com. But if you backlink from a english page to a german page you will have an effect in google.com too only.

So it looks to me that it doesnt work anymore to backlink from english sites to german ones when you want to go up in google.de. It needs to be german backlinking pages.

For example I backlinked the last time to some german pages. I wondered why nothing happened in google.de and took a look in google.com. There was the good ranking. Before google.com was less good all the time.

So maybe im wrong but it looks to me that you now have to target specific google-country-version with backlinking from corresponding language sites.

But maybe im misinterpreting... :)

Not exactly true, but very close. The linking from english pages will make your website rank higher for people who use English as language in Google preferences (or ?hl=en in URL in query). Even in google.de. Try adding the $hl=en at the end of the google query and you will see more english results.

But in most cases users use the main language in GEO location where they search so this two correlate.

Also you have to take in account the GEO backlink targeting. Most of the english links are from website tah are hosted in US, UK.. You german competition probably has most of their backlinks german.
So you need to get german geo backlinks to outrank them.
 
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Hmmm, interesting. "treating longtail searches the same as short searches" Why would they do that? Any idea's???


Me hungry for Almonds, no throw $hit at you!! -lol

Because before Caffeine they didn't have the computer power for it.
After index reorganization they can dedicate computer power also to the "obscure" longtail searches.
 
What do you mean, "Dedicate more power to obscure longtail keywords"?

Does that mean Google has ability to better index sites and keywords?


:smurves30 - Explain please, me and the trolls are eager to know!



Google was running on two algos.. one was for the main search terms that had all the bulk of the traffic and required a lot more computer power to process than their farm of Pentinum 3s could handle (not kidding). The long tail terms basically were allowed to 'slip' through and thus allow crappy sites to rank on them.

Now, they have a new shiney farm, caffiene I guess overcomes the processing issues and they are able to coorlate long tails the same way they did for top terms.

So yeah, Google got better at indexing, but beyond the better, they also changed everything by categorizing searches. Now that I write that, I am wondering if the segmentation of categories actually helped them get to that point, rather than extra hardware. Quite possible, since it breaks up the results data into more manageable chunks for each query to serve up.

For the user, this might mean better. For the BHer, this means needing to step up in their game. Same deal for the SEOer. :) Guys that worked for peanuts now are going to be begging for water as well since it will take more work to start to rank on terms that once were easy pickings.
 
Nice thread MrGemini.
I'm following to read more discussion on this issue. It's interesting to be updated on the Google thinking.

I just have some doubts in these regards.

I've read everywhere in the forum about Mayday, falling rankings etc for one page keyword targeted sites. People is saying they don't work anymore because G outrank them etc etc.

I've been doing some targeted keyword research to launch several of these sites and everywhere I look on my keywords there's always those kind of result on the first page.
I have seen a lot of Xfactor sites on #1, #2, #3, #4.....#7 positions for many many keywords. Sometimes they are just one page long and some times a few more.

Why they haven't been affected by all this new changes on G?

I'd love to hear your opinions on this guys as I'm new to this and those results made me think about.
 
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