YouTubers FUCKED!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/washington/28privacy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

EU and united states are going to share our info with corporations now too

http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=7241

Also this, by 2012 they want to lock up all the isp's.

The great thing about youtube, is the ones they want to catch posting 'south park'
and 'daily show' clips are the people protesting scieno-cology... and those people will use all fake info and proxies...
 
When you view copyrighted materials without having paid royalties to do so, you are liable for copyright infringement.

That is not true. That's like saying some early days cable outlet showing a clip of an NFL game without permission and then the NFL suing everyone who used that cable company.

This is about Viacom suing Google period. Google is on trial. I'll admit, the possibility does exist that Viacom could, at a later date, go after some token youtube users but it seems remote.
 
That is not true. That's like saying some early days cable outlet showing a clip of an NFL game without permission and then the NFL suing everyone who used that cable company.

This is about Viacom suing Google period. Google is on trial. I'll admit, the possibility does exist that Viacom could, at a later date, go after some token youtube users but it seems remote.

NAPSTER...?

Uptown is right, they will eventually take it to that level if they're allowed to
 
Wait,
Did I read you right uptown?
Google-A search engine, is being charged for.... sending traffic to youtube?
I thought ISP laws just like the ones that protect this forum protected sites like youtube and google as wells.


Google is being sued, not charged. They are being charged because they're douchebags who bought youtube AFTER the suit had already been filed so now they are the owners of said videos. Mark Cuban called this when he said he was not going to buy youtube.
 
NAPSTER...?

Uptown is right, they will eventually take it to that level if they're allowed to

I knew that would get thrown out there but I completely disagree. The record industry was in free fall when they went after the poor shits who downloaded. They felt they could scare enough people to stop that practice. They failed on all counts, their business model is completely outdated and they are still losing money to illegal downloads. Viacom is in no where near the dire straits the recording industry was/is.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/washington/28privacy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

EU and united states are going to share our info with corporations now too

That report differs from the reports we get in Europe. The USA wants all of our private data, with NO safeguards against holding erroneous data and nothing in place which would force the US Govt to change it. In return Europe gets - nothing.

This is mirrored by the extradition treaty that the UK has in place with the US where the US can ask for the extradition of a UK citizen who has supposedly broken US law (despite not being subject to US law) but the opposite doesn't apply.

The USA may be trying to rule the world (and doubtless the Bush administration thinks it should) but there's an awful lot of people who don't think that's a good idea.

At this point it's Viacom getting access to worldwide data. Doubtless the US government would like to get access to the world's data too.

If you aren't scared yet - you should be.
 
This is rubbish and incorrect.

Actually not; if the courts should continue to hold, as is apparent already, that such materials placed on You Tube have been so placed in violation of copyright law, viewers could indeed and in fact be held liable, as viewing or using such "pirated" materials constitutes both civil torts and crimes.

Viacom will select a few uploaders and a few viewers to target just to make their point, very much as has RIAA and ASCAP with bar, club, restauraunt and other business owners.

Doubt me?

You just wait.

The interent has shaken up copyright laws world-wide and in point of fact, there is very little case law as compared to the printed page, DMCA or not.

There is not much time before entirely new methods of royalty payments are developed and no one is certain waht those will be or how they will work but until that time, owners of intellectual property are going to fight tooth and nail to preserve such copyrights as they have.
 
They will target viewers of paramount, nickelodeon, mtv, bet, spike or other content from networks they own right? Not just all copyright material they own? Man I watch copyrighted material all the time and I guess I would be sued if they go through with a lawsuit against users. What about watching at public places such as schools or libraries, or people whom watch material from free internet cafes which gives them a ip address that is shared by many different people. AOL subscribers are going to be in deep shit because their IP changes everytime they get connected to the internet. What if the biggest user offenders use ip addresses that are shared by many different people? I say all that to say this: It seems highly unlikely to me that viacom would go after users of a site that invite you to view copyrighted material. They most undoubtedly go after youtube, and maybe big content upload offenders. It seems as though they will definitely use the information they receive for market research. They will immediately see the value of said data accept that as restitution and a new private partnership will emerge. Other companies if not already will pay youtube for market research reports. Viacom is a business and its sole purpose is to make money they will find that they can make more money with a partnership with rather than making enemies. They are not sitting there angry because someone is viewing there content without permission they are angry because they aren't making money off of it. There is no money to be made by suing youtube users, or uploaders and if they do sue I think a lot of us here may be getting served.
 
They will target viewers of paramount, nickelodeon, mtv, bet, spike or other content from networks they own right? Not just all copyright material they own? Man I watch copyrighted material all the time and I guess I would be sued if they go through with a lawsuit against users. What about watching at public places such as schools or libraries, or people whom watch material from free internet cafes which gives them a ip address that is shared by many different people. AOL subscribers are going to be in deep shit because their IP changes everytime they get connected to the internet. What if the biggest user offenders use ip addresses that are shared by many different people? I say all that to say this: It seems highly unlikely to me that viacom would go after users of a site that invite you to view copyrighted material. They most undoubtedly go after youtube, and maybe big content upload offenders. It seems as though they will definitely use the information they receive for market research. They will immediately see the value of said data accept that as restitution and a new private partnership will emerge. Other companies if not already will pay youtube for market research reports. Viacom is a business and its sole purpose is to make money they will find that they can make more money with a partnership with rather than making enemies. They are not sitting there angry because someone is viewing there content without permission they are angry because they aren't making money off of it. There is no money to be made by suing youtube users, or uploaders and if they do sue I think a lot of us here may be getting served.

OK, let me clarify my earlier comments.

Viewing copyrighted material with permission of the holder is 100% A-OK.

If the material is pirated and "published" (More of a legal term than a practical one!) by placing the pirated information or product on a publicly viewable website, the viewers are indeed violating both the DMCA and other trademark and copyright laws because viewers would be accessing a piratead product and it make no difference that there is no financial gain.

Ever notice that little snippet at the end of rented VHS or DVD movies about the flick being for private showing only?

If you watch the movie at home, you are fine but were you to show the movie in for example, your bar, you would be in violation of the stated licence agreement and therefore liable for monetary damages.

Viacom will indeed sue a few people and get judgement, knowing that little, if anything will ever be collected but collection of such judgements is not the point.

Viacom simply wants to shut down piracy but also in point of fact, is going to have one Hell of a time doing it and as a practicall matter, knows that it cannot stop it but will go through the motions, much to the detriment of Google, You Tube and a few users.

Of course this will slow things down for a bit but in the long run, Vicaom will be the loser that sites will pop up all over the place.

The consumer will be the ultimate winner as new systems of royalty will be developed if only to simplify the whole mess.
 
Wait,
Did I read you right uptown?
Google-A search engine, is being charged for.... sending traffic to youtube?
I thought ISP laws just like the ones that protect this forum protected sites like youtube and google as wells.

You do know that google owns youtube right?
 
Sooo...the end result google stocks may dip for a half of a quarter and they may lose 1billion dollars? I think they can live with that. Its going to be many months before viacom will be able to process all of that data to prove their point. That 4 terabytes of space = alot of user accounts and alot of dot connecting. Then google can always counter citing exactly what is stated in the DMCA. They do oblige, when evidence is brought forth that copyrighted material has been uploaded they remove it and ban the account. I am sure the data that google hands over will prove that point. Google will also probably hand them over data that does not prove that more copyrighted content is viewed more than original content. :D It seems painfully obvious that viacom is attempting to gain some kind of technological edge i.e. wanting to view google's source code.
 
Actually not; if the courts should continue to hold, as is apparent already, that such materials placed on You Tube have been so placed in violation of copyright law, viewers could indeed and in fact be held liable, as viewing or using such "pirated" materials constitutes both civil torts and crimes.

Viacom will select a few uploaders and a few viewers to target just to make their point, very much as has RIAA and ASCAP with bar, club, restauraunt and other business owners.

Doubt me?

You just wait.

The interent has shaken up copyright laws world-wide and in point of fact, there is very little case law as compared to the printed page, DMCA or not.

There is not much time before entirely new methods of royalty payments are developed and no one is certain waht those will be or how they will work but until that time, owners of intellectual property are going to fight tooth and nail to preserve such copyrights as they have.

You stated that "users who may have viewed copyrighted materials without payment of royalties will be subject to scrutiny." If this were true, then we are all committing a crime when reading a book, going to the movies, watching TV etc.
 
If you watch the movie at home, you are fine but were you to show the movie in for example, your bar, you would be in violation of the stated licence agreement and therefore liable for monetary damages.

This is correct, but it is the person who owns the movie who is committing the crime, not the viewers.

How can any viewer know whether the video being viewed on Youtube has been uploaded legitimately or not? Bands upload their own videos, ordinary people upload their home made videos, advertisers upload their ads etc.
 
This is correct, but it is the person who owns the movie who is committing the crime, not the viewers.

How can any viewer know whether the video being viewed on Youtube has been uploaded legitimately or not? Bands upload their own videos, ordinary people upload their home made videos, advertisers upload their ads etc.

Viacom is concerned only with its own commerical properties, the uploading of which to such sites as You Tube is a clear violation of both licencing agreements and current copyright law.

The person who posesses a DVD or VHS tape does NOT "own" the movie; that person has only been granted very specific licence rights to THAT particular copy.

Little known and even less understood fact.

Even home-made videos, unless specifically stated to be public domain carry with them copyright by the creator.
 
hostageyx6.png

Damn you! Damn you all to hell! (Charleton Heston - at the end of Planet of the Apes)
 
Jezz lets calm down so what Google have made money from copyright content (that's the issue here). Not if we watched it!

Viacom don't give a rats ass who watched it or even who uploaded it like they are going to sue millions of people most of whom couldn't pay a parking ticket let alone the legal bills. They are only interested in what they watched.

They like everyone else have realised that Youtube is a bigger barometer of what's popular than any survey.

Viacom might win the battle but will lose the war as Goggle has very deep pockets and the only winners will be the lawyers (sounds familure?) .

If this actually survives appeals (expect many). You tube will be shut as they would have to individually edit every clip put up now or in the past. If one frame is copyright then so is the whole bloody clip.

There is no way Viacom will win this as I believe your US laws prevent privacy violations more than any other country.

If Google are forced to reveal Isp and personal details (en block) and other details this will be the end of the internet as a free medium as no one will risk passing in their info to major corporations.

Next will be the P2P networks, then the search engines, then we go for the banner advertisers that make money from the illegal vids, then we get to several other major corporate layers before we get to Black Hatters loading vids they got from some where else anyways..... Sounds like the lawyers are going to be busy.
 
Thought this might also be interesting sorry its bit long winded

The Video Privacy Protection Act (18 U.S.C. 2710) was passed by Congress in the wake of the controversy that arose when Judge Robert Bork's video rental records were released during hearings into his Supreme Court nomination.

The Act forbids a video rental or sales outlet from disclosing information concerning what tapes a person borrows and buys, or releasing other personally identifiable information without the informed, written consent of the customer.

The Act also requires such outlets to provide consumers with the opportunity to opt out from any sale of mailing lists. The Video Privacy Act allows consumers to sue for damages if they are harmed by violations of the Act.

Release of video tape rental records of the type Judge Bork suffered probably comprises an invasion of privacy that a common law court would recognize as a tort if it happened to an ordinary consumer. Because Judge Bork was a public figure whose suitability for the Supreme Court was a hotly debated issue, release of his video rental records may have been protected by the First Amendment.

Because tort law already protected ordinary consumers, the Video Privacy Act created a new way to sue video rental outfits without improving the privacy of video rental information. When Congress voted on the law, they undoubtedly saw themselves in Judge Bork; they did little for consumers.
 
If this actually survives appeals (expect many). You tube will be shut as they would have to individually edit every clip put up now or in the past. If one frame is copyright then so is the whole bloody clip.

There is no way Viacom will win this as I believe your US laws prevent privacy violations more than any other country.

Point 1. Viacom HAVE won.
Point 2. Google have already said that they will NOT appeal.

If Google are forced to reveal Isp and personal details (en block) and other details this will be the end of the internet as a free medium as no one will risk passing in their info to major corporations.

Next will be the P2P networks, then the search engines, then we go for the banner advertisers that make money from the illegal vids, then we get to several other major corporate layers before we get to Black Hatters loading vids they got from some where else anyways..... Sounds like the lawyers are going to be busy.

It's already happening. ISP's in Europe are being warned that they will have to provide details of connections, customers, traffic content, etc. Why? The so-called 'fight against terrorism'.

Google, etc. already keep details of your search enquiries - so that they can target their ads at you. What happens when they are forced to hand over records? Because, you better believe it, at some point, someone is going to obtain such a ruling. It may be over something incredibly trivial - but it will happen.

The really scary shit is that because most of this stuff is headquartered in the US it means records of people from other countries - which the US has no legitimate right to - will be included.

And the chances are that most of this data has already been obtained by the (in)appropriate government departments anyway. Leaving aside any Black Hat activity I find that really worrying.
 
Folks,

You are all missing out on a key element of defense that the newly enlightened Google could (and probably should) use to quash most of this data fiasco.

In their line of business, Google has gained a greater position of metering than the Neilsen (sp?) Ratings system. Since those ratings are available in aggregated format for a sizeable fee, being forced to freely provide the data in question could easily be shown as economically biased and only intended to deprive Google of appropriate data access fees.

See, Neilsen could quite easily demonstrate the mediums' weight (Viacom intellectual property (IP) v. general populace IP), since this is actually one of their measurable formats (video).

Similarly, Gallop is in the business of conducted authoritative 'data mining operations' using the poll. Their organization could easily select at random (double-blind verified) three groups of poll takers numbering approx. 1500 each. Each group would be presented with questions pertaining to their own online video viewing habits. The people claiming they do not watch videos online would be removed from the sample, as they do not represent the group being measured. The separate results of the poll groups would be used to validate each other against biases. If a standard deviation greater than, for example, 7 is encountered, the poll is to be re-administered from scratch.

So, as you can see, Google can quite easily prove that Viacom has self-serving ulterior motives for desiring the data, and can counter for financial duress as a result of the disenfranchising actions of the claimant. The problem in this situation is that Google is worth more on a daily basis than is Viacom ... limiting the size of the settlement in favor of Google.

Explanatory Sidebar: Google is a cash kinda company, whereas Viacom is a credit kinda company... and debts mean less value as they not only eat assets on a 1:1 basis, but interest makes it a slow downward spiral -- unless you are the issuing bank using credit to loan cash at a greater rate.

As far as IP goes, anybody publishing materials onto the internet holds a copyright on their data, including an exclusive rights license. Now, since Google not only directly scrapes the internet for data to display, they also pull data from other smaller search engines.

The problem: not all of the search engines in question observe the Robots.txt file - meaning you are denied the right to keep your data exclusively on your own site. Now, since Google displays your content (any amount is still a copyright violation) in conjunction with their own for-profit ads, they can be sued for $$$$$ by individuals who have had their own IP rights violated. Any they are supposed to worry about debt-laden Viacom-munist?

Since copyright violation is a Federal offense, any person or group of people (company included) in any way associated with the act, can be held liable, regardless of their pleas for immunity (ISPs included), as they have aided and abetted a felonious act which current technology can be easily shown to eradicate and/or prevent when exercising due diligence (in this case there is a grossly contemptuous neglect of responsibility as required for the immunities to be assigned). So, if Google goes down, the ISPs actually delivering the data can also be held responsible, since they permitted the whole data transfer to take place without so much as an attempt to validate the action as being legal.

If you are going to spout legalese folks, please be sure to use both sides of your mouth, as it is a two-way street. Google should count themselves fortunate at this point that they still have a couple of sound defensive counter claims at their disposal. The rest of the digital media organizations might want to clean up their records, too (ie. burn the dag records and fry the HDDs), as the implications coming are not going to be limited to simple user data.

Next comes the "scrapers" who profit from the works of others without permission (Google knows who they are, too, and that data is probably mixed into the fray). Similarly to those Niche Video Site Builder sites scraping video content onto their pages. Every one of those videos is a copyright violation, as my willful uploading to YouTube does not give every person accessing the videos a perpetual license to duplicate/display the data. It only gives YouTube the right to show the video- on YouTube.com, and not inside of some embed into an external domain, such as video.google.com.

~ T
 
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