Where to hire really good web developers?

[Gogol]

You sound like you want to show here that we are all lying and none of us have anything to do with the software.
Maybe show us your work. Oh, it's not a recruitment platform. It's BHW.

Are you kidding me? I am not showing any fucking thing here dude. I am opposing to what has been said against me, as well as my country. Why does that even bother you?

 

[lucky.sparks]

I just checked your about me profile. You seem to be a dev (LOL, I would love to see your work. Mr. Spark). How many have you hired till date? Do you conduct interviews before hiring? Do you bother to speak with the developer before throwing money on them?

What I think is you are speaking from your "back side", and you have no idea about how to hire a developer.

Coming to development, there are crappy developers; average developers and then there are good ones. IT DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER WHERE THEY ARE FROM, if you know what I mean. LOL.

~17 years in software dev, from which a decade spent in building my own agency, hiring, training, and building top talent that now is employed in our countries largest tech companies. Built software and solutions for airlines, banks, large ecom companies. I still identify myself as a software developer, yes. Because that is who I am by heart.

I've hired people (and I still remember who and when) from United States, Brazil, Columbia, Canada, Venezuela, Germany, France, Poland, United Kingdom, Ukraine, Lithuania, Romania, Belarus, India, Pakistan, Myanmar, China, Vietnam, Russia, Philipines and Latvia. Probably more but then I have to review my upwork history.

I did conduct interviews as I already mentioned, you are showing a lack of attention again. Spent $150k on Upwork, hiring more than 60 people there by myself or my assistants. And those hires were after doing code reviews, tests, etc. Some of them were copyrighters, designers, etc, not all of hires were software devs. Some of the hires were small gigs, some of them were partnerships lasting years.

Edit: mod just edited my long-ass post and removed a large portion of what he/she shouldn't where I asked not to go on battles as there is no point in it. Including what this business think about one specific countries developers because I guess sounded too racist, lol. I'm pretty brown myself, haha. That is nothing to with race, but statistics. The same fact as best hackers comes from Russia and China.

Not gonna contribute to this thread anymore, you are all entitled to your opinions.

 

[polecat]

There are no wrongs or rights when it comes to experience, that is just what I have experienced.

And it's MY experience about doing business on these PLATFORMS, so you can't really state - "there are good devs just not on those platforms, so you are wrong about what you say about freelancers on those platforms". My guess would be you are from India. You are making assumptions and comments without focus and understanding of the subject. A common problem. Just as same as @Gogol . This just proves my point guys.

And I didn't have few bad experiences.

From about 20-30 devs I tried to work with and 2-3 agencies, only 1 freelancer was a pleasant experience. Agencies were a nightmare as well. So the ratio is too low to waste time on them. And I did tried to hire freelancers with high hourly rates as well in hopes they will be different. They all shared very different mentalities and ways of thinking, most of them feel no shame to lie at all. And be sure when I say that I did deep due diligence, interviews, and selection process before hiring.

Yes, I agree that when you find that one good apple, it's a nice experience, but till you will find it - you will lose money(a lot of it), nerves, time and any happiness you still got in yourself.

And again, I have no problem about nationality or race, this forum is full of super cool guys from India and so on, they are way smarter than me, more successful, and way more experienced. My favorite logo designer is from Bangladesh. He's borderline genius and makes unique logos for under $100. But when it comes to freelancing platforms and software development - the chance you will lose money if hiring someone from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh - is high and this risk must be counted in.

When it comes to hiring from Ukraine, Russia, Romania, and other eastern European countries - the bad apple ratio is 2/10, not the 9/10.

I would basically agree with all you said.

For example I had many fantastic experiences with Indians or Pakistani people overall after like 10 years employing just one bad experience but I am maybe lucky or smart but in general, both countries have an impressive amount of smart or talented people and all my best V.A were Indians or Pakistani overall. I feel the real problem is people try and pay them like say $0.50 a hour then expect the guy or girls to delivery world class service it's possible I guess but not likely unless you get lucky or find the gold in a sense.

I also like a lot of Slavic workers since most are smart,kind, straight to the point and hard workers like Germans or Dutch for why these people make up some of my favourite workers or people do jobs with.

 

[Websettled]

I guess there's a lot on here

 

[JonSnowtr]

I always get mines from Upwork. But again, the work I need is not hard to achieve, so depending on the quality you need, you might want to contact an agency.

 

[krazylearner]

~17 years in software dev, from which a decade spent in building my own agency, hiring, training, and building top talent that now is employed in our countries largest tech companies. Built software and solutions for airlines, banks, large ecom companies. I still identify myself as a software developer, yes. Because that is who I am by heart.

I've hired people (and I still remember who and when) from United States, Brazil, Columbia, Canada, Venezuela, Germany, France, Poland, United Kingdom, Ukraine, Lithuania, Romania, Belarus, India, Pakistan, Mumbai, China, Vietnam, Russia, and Latvia. Probably more but then I have to review my upwork history.

I did conduct interviews as I already mentioned, you are showing a lack of attention again. Spent $150k on Upwork, hiring more than 60 people there by myself or my assistants. And those hires were after doing code reviews, tests, etc. Some of them were copyrighters, designers, etc, not all of hires were software devs. Some of the hires were small gigs, some of them were partnerships lasting years.

Edit: mod just edited my long-ass post and removed a large portion of what he/she shouldn't where I asked not to go on battles as there is no point in it. Including what this business think about one specific countries developers because I guess sounded too racist, lol. That is nothing to with race, but statistics. The same fact as best hackers comes from Russia and China.

Not gonna contribute to this thread anymore, you are all entitl

It's okay. You can prove your work with your portfolio. You don't need to be fearful of ethnic issues.

I think you are definitely the exception. I know there are lots of excellent creatives and developers in India and Pakistan, but I have not been successful in finding more than 2. I actually did a JV with one of them and I would consider him a friend.

I've even tried paying really high wages. As I said, my current person from Pakistan is paid $23 per hour for full time work, which is much higher than the average wage in that part of the world.

One gripe I have about offshore people in general, if that they never tell you how much they are requesting for salary. I was interviewing a dude from India the other day. I was going to hire him. I was budgeting up to $20 per hour for the position. I asked him his requested salary and he said, "Well how much are you paying?" I said, "We have a budget for full time employee, so just tell your salary requirement. Just tell me how much you need to make for 8 hours per day, 5 days per week. If it's too high we will negotiate." Then he said, "Let me think about it and I will get back to you." - I'm not hiring this dude now.

In the US and most western countries, you request a salary, whatever it may be, then the employer will make you an offer. Sometimes the employer will post the salary for the job and there is not negotiation, but most corporate jobs do not publish the salary and it's up to the employee and hiring manager to work that out. Reason is because you want to hire talent but you also want to get a good deal. You want to pay people as little as possible but not so low that they don't care about the job or that they will immediately be looking for another job. I just tell people the position pays a living wage in their part of the world and to request how much they feel they are worth. If that's too much to ask then I'm not hiring them.

You are not successfull In hiring some one from Asia which is good at his work ? May be problem lies with you. I have rejected multiple European and US clients in my career because they were too dumb to work with me

 

[z00rf]

I've had good luck with upwork when looking for a developer around $15p/hr or so. If you want even better quality you can use companies like Crossover or use linkedin and find people in Eastern Europe. Ukraine, Russia, Belarus & Poland tend to have the best talent in those regions

 

[crnack]

I've had good luck with upwork when looking for a developer around $15p/hr or so. If you want even better quality you can use companies like Crossover or use linkedin and find people in Eastern Europe. Ukraine, Russia, Belarus & Poland tend to have the best talent in those regions

Too much. $5 is what we can pay here (PL).

 

[DanDD]

There are some excellent fellas here but otherwise go for upwork, dont go cheap and loomat their reviews, most importantly jss, a 100% jss means they statisfied their clients to the max.
freelancer on the other end is 99% people offloading work to cheaper freelancers, its shit

 

[pavan]

I think you are definitely the exception. I know there are lots of excellent creatives and developers in India and Pakistan, but I have not been successful in finding more than 2. I actually did a JV with one of them and I would consider him a friend.

I've even tried paying really high wages. As I said, my current person from Pakistan is paid $23 per hour for full time work, which is much higher than the average wage in that part of the world.

One gripe I have about offshore people in general, if that they never tell you how much they are requesting for salary. I was interviewing a dude from India the other day. I was going to hire him. I was budgeting up to $20 per hour for the position. I asked him his requested salary and he said, "Well how much are you paying?" I said, "We have a budget for full time employee, so just tell your salary requirement. Just tell me how much you need to make for 8 hours per day, 5 days per week. If it's too high we will negotiate." Then he said, "Let me think about it and I will get back to you." - I'm not hiring this dude now.

In the US and most western countries, you request a salary, whatever it may be, then the employer will make you an offer. Sometimes the employer will post the salary for the job and there is not negotiation, but most corporate jobs do not publish the salary and it's up to the employee and hiring manager to work that out. Reason is because you want to hire talent but you also want to get a good deal. You want to pay people as little as possible but not so low that they don't care about the job or that they will immediately be looking for another job. I just tell people the position pays a living wage in their part of the world and to request how much they feel they are worth. If that's too much to ask then I'm not hiring them.

what's wrong with "Let me think about it and I will get back to you" ??

 

[Robinhood1234]

Try upwork

 

[arc323]

You are not successfull In hiring some one from Asia which is good at his work ? May be problem lies with you. I have rejected multiple European and US clients in my career because they were too dumb to work with me

If you read my post, I said I have one Pakistani on staff earning about $55k per year. I also have 7 full time Filipinos, one of them has worked for me full time for 5 years and I trust him 100%. The others range from 3 years to about 2 months. Philippines is in Asia, at least I think. Anyhow, like with any hiring situation, it's not easy. You want the best employee for your business and the employee wants the best situation for themselves. You just have to meet in the middle somewhere I guess.

what's wrong with "Let me think about it and I will get back to you" ??

Dude wasn't thinking about whether or not to take the position. He was thinking about how much he wanted to be paid. If you can't tell me how much you want to be paid as a full time employee, then you won't get the job. I'm not going to wait around for this dude to think about how much he wants to get paid. It was just a turn off for me that a person who is interviewing for a job can't tell you their requested salary. I think it's probably because he is negotiable and doesn't want to scare me off with a high salary request, but that stuff doesn't bother me at all. I'll offer what I think the person is worth, but I also want to get the best deal for myself while paying that person a living wage. Asking a potential employee for their salary requirement is super common in the US. Maybe not so much elsewhere.

 

[pavan]

If you read my post, I said I have one Pakistani on staff earning about $55k per year. I also have 7 full time Filipinos, one of them has worked for me full time for 5 years and I trust him 100%. The others range from 3 years to about 2 months. Philippines is in Asia, at least I think. Anyhow, like with any hiring situation, it's not easy. You want the best employee for your business and the employee wants the best situation for themselves. You just have to meet in the middle somewhere I guess.

Dude wasn't thinking about whether or not to take the position. He was thinking about how much he wanted to be paid. If you can't tell me how much you want to be paid as a full time employee, then you won't get the job. I'm not going to wait around for this dude to think about how much he wants to get paid. It was just a turn off for me that a person who is interviewing for a job can't tell you their requested salary. I think it's probably because he is negotiable and doesn't want to scare me off with a high salary request, but that stuff doesn't bother me at all. I'll offer what I think the person is worth, but I also want to get the best deal for myself while paying that person a living wage. Asking a potential employee for their salary requirement is super common in the US. Maybe not so much elsewhere.

It must be common but i read all your posts and you sounds like you try to exploit people. No wonder you don't find good developer from asian countries. Maybe they don't give into it or just sense it before hand.

 

[arc323]

It must be common but i read all your posts and you sounds like you try to exploit people. No wonder you don't find good developer from asian countries. Maybe they don't give into it or just sense it before hand.

Paying a living wage isn't exploiting people. Paying someone offshore the same amount you would pay someone in the USA defeats the purpose of hiring offshore. I expect to pay less for a qualified candidate in Asian countries.

Maybe you have not hired many people or are a freelancer yourself, in that case I see the reason for your comments. I just don't think paying a living wage or fair wage for the position is exploiting them.

If you read all my posts and that's vibe you got, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[pavan]

Paying a living wage isn't exploiting people. Paying someone offshore the same amount you would pay someone in the USA defeats the purpose of hiring offshore. I expect to pay less for a qualified candidate in Asian countries.

Maybe you have not hired many people or are a freelancer yourself, in that case I see the reason for your comments. I just don't think paying a living wage or fair wage for the position is exploiting them.

If you read all my posts and that's vibe you got, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Straight from wikipedia
A living wage is defined as the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet their basic needs

This is what you want to pay for web development it's a clear exploitation. If any web developer wants to earn a living wage would better off be working in his own country. Outsourcing doesn't mean you have to pay same salaries like US but also doesn't mean you pay living wage based on the country.

You pay different salaries for european developers and asian developers and then complaint about their skills. You get what you pay for. It has nothing to do with any specific country or a region.

I am sure you have hired many developers and had several bad experiences. It's just because of your hiring techniques.

 

[Elker]

here: https://kerjobs.com/latest-jobs

 

[MZI Palash]

Try upwork. This is the best place out there I think. You can also try it here.

 

[Yrior]

Don't mind my answer, but I'm just here to say that I have around 7 indian people in my contacts and they are probably the most professional people I've worked with in terms of work, attitude and ethics. I don't know about your experience really but mine was a great one. Shoutout to all my indians bros in BHW. (I'm not indian)

 

[creativemaster]

I find it a struggle to find really good web developers and designers, does anyone have recommendations of where I can find them at? Freelancer is garbage these days, where did all the good talent go?

for my opinion upwork is the best way to find out web developer but don't hire Indian we have a bad experience with indian developer with my clients

 

[2020vision]

@lucky.sparks dropping gems in here, he even gave me pretty much the same advice in this thread as he did when i pm'ed him like a year ago. The current agency i use is from Ukraine, the only problem I guess with people from this region is that their english is not the best so can be a bit hard to communicate but they are very professional