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Thanks. Yes, we did receive a few contact via here and to our support team ...
  1. #46
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Thanks.
    Yes, we did receive a few contact via here and to our support team on this auction so thanks for bringing it to our attention.

    Without knowing the background on the website, it can often be difficult for us to make a firm, evidence-based call on removing an auction. It ends up being the seller's word against someone elses.

    The comments can be tremendously powerful in calling out details that prospective buyers should be aware of so they can make their own call and we will restore objective comments in this regard as we did on this listing. I'd just ask that we can keep the comments clean as our support team are not likely to restore comments that are rife with swearing.

    The comments we did restore still seem to get the point across. Thanks for everyone that took the time to drop a note ...

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  3. #47
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Having those comments restored is better than deleting the thread. Now its hilarious to read ... if someone will buy it knowing all those things then at least they know.

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Also uses the alias Kendra Kiwi / KendraKiwi as a username with the email address kendrakiwi@hotmail.ca

    http://www.articlesbase.com/authors/kendra-kiwi/892938

    Enjoy.

    For someone trying make big moves he should learn how to switch ip's, use different emails, and stop coming back here.

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    btw the scammer changed his skype name to "Mike" ....uses the same profile pic though....lol

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by BleemZ View Post
    For someone trying make big moves he should learn how to switch ip's, use different emails, and stop coming back here.
    Don't give him any ideas. Granted he doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the box, but he may well be able to copy others' ideas/advice.
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by BassTrackerBoats View Post
    No I am not.

    He was using my name saying it was my service.

    Never was or the whole world would have known as I would have expressed that a zillion times in half a zillion places.

    O wow. This guy was going all out.

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarit1 View Post
    Note this post is about http://ibacklinks.org, not to be confused with http://ibacklinks.com.

    This guy called Ken contacted me on Skype wanting to buy 5k likes for his Facebook fanpage. A few hours later after the likes had been delivered, the guy didn't answer my Skype messages. A week later he still refused to pay and sent insulting messages on my Skype regarding me and my mother.

    Anyway just wanted u guys to be aware this guy is Scum and to keep away.

    Thanks.
    That is why you always take payment up front.
    +

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by small_town_boy View Post
    That is why you always take payment up front.
    Unfortunately, that goes both ways...
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    This guy is a complete bastard... No doubts about that. I was contacted on my site's chatbox a few mins ago by a guy with a skype name "kenb27" . Seems to be our good old friend here, as I traced his skype id on google's cahce.

    [812 PM] Ken: Hey Surya
    [816 PM] Ken: I have heard your service from Big Buddy
    [818 PM] surya: hey ken
    [823 PM] surya: oh nice..
    [825 PM] Ken: I need SEO for 12 sites, 5 keywords each.
    [828 PM] surya: ok
    [834 PM] Ken: Tell me what you can do
    [838 PM] Ken: and bulk pricing here
    [838 PM] surya: hmmm
    [849 PM] surya: why dont u look at the services i offer on my site
    [858 PM] Ken: Im looking for bulk pricing
    [800 PM] surya: if something suits you, i will give you a price
    [805 PM] Ken: http://fountainheadseo.com/wp-conten...treme-copy.jpg
    [808 PM] surya: fountainheadseo.com/backlink-packages
    [810 PM] Ken: Backlink Extreme
    [814 PM] Ken: I want the best package you offer
    [820 PM] Ken: Big Buddy says you are the best link builder provider
    [842 PM] surya: haha.. good friend so says that.. im not the best
    [847 PM] surya: im good at what I do
    [851 PM] surya: fountainheadseo.com/backlink-packages
    [854 PM] Ken: Okay
    [858 PM] surya: i have a few more services in the site
    [8:14:01 PM] Ken: I want this Extreme package
    [8:14:04 PM] surya: ok...
    [8:14:05 PM] Ken: for 225$
    [8:14:08 PM] Ken: but I need this for 10 sites
    [8:14:17 PM] surya: right
    [8:14:25 PM] Ken: You can do 5 keywords per site rightÉ
    [8:14:30 PM] surya: yes
    [8:14:36 PM] Ken: Okay give me turn around time
    [8:14:37 PM] Ken: and price
    [8:14:38 PM] surya: however, id like to take a look at the keywords
    [8:14:45 PM] Ken: 5 keywords, 10 websites.
    [8:14:48 PM] surya: cause, my seo is more the organic style.. u wont see instant results
    [803 PM] Ken: its fine
    [806 PM] Ken: Okay nvm make it 9 websites
    [810 PM] Ken: 5 keywords each
    [822 PM] surya: sure
    [827 PM] Ken: Give me a price and TAT
    [834 PM] Ken: I have work in 20 minutes
    [837 PM] Ken: I have a meeting to attend too
    [842 PM] Ken: Tell me what you can do for me
    [851 PM] surya: how about i add something interesting into the package
    [859 PM] surya: ive just got my new blog network ready.. 10 blogs
    [8:16:09 PM] surya: only unique content on it.. no spun shit.. all c class hosted
    [8:16:16 PM] surya: wud u like backlinks from them too?
    [8:16:20 PM] Ken: Sure
    [8:16:23 PM] Ken: Id be more than happy tow rite a review
    [8:16:27 PM] Ken: for your support here
    [8:16:30 PM] Ken: and your genorosity
    [8:16:33 PM] surya: gimme 2 mins, lemme give u my best deal
    [804 PM] Ken: awesome
    [816 PM] surya: I will do each site for $160
    [834 PM] Ken: sounds like a very good deal
    [839 PM] Ken: 5 keywords each right?
    [802 PM] surya: 25 property linkwheel, 3 ezine/articles base submissions, 5 private blog netwrok links+ social bookmarks, comments and article submissions
    [807 PM] surya: see i will mix the keywords..
    [820 PM] surya: for example, u give me 5 of them, we will randomly use them..
    [828 PM] surya: however, id like to just take a look at the keywords
    [844 PM] surya: and suggest if i can make some changes to some sites/keywords
    [851 PM] Ken: okay
    [859 PM] Ken: -=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=-
    Website:
    http://goldstandardwheyreview.com

    Keywords:
    Optimum Nutrition
    Whey
    Protein Powder
    Whey Protein Powder
    Best Protein Powder

    -=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=-
    Website:
    http://bestheartratemonitor-reviews.org

    Keywords:
    Best Heart Rate Monitor
    Best Heart Rate Monitors
    Heart Rate Monitor Reviews
    Heart Rate Monitor Watches
    Best Heart Rate Monitor Watch

    -=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=-
    [8:20:02 PM] Ken: Heres 2 examples.
    [8:20:07 PM] Ken: They are around the same template
    [8:20:21 PM] surya: ok.. so shud i take a look and get back to u by the time ur done with ur meeting
    [8:20:31 PM] surya: cause the first site seems tough, but lemme pull out some stats
    [8:20:52 PM] surya: whey. i dont think u will see results any time soon for that
    [8:20:55 PM] surya: no false promises
    [8:20:58 PM] Ken: Aslong as you can make links as promised
    [8:21:01 PM] Ken: I will be back every week
    [8:21:08 PM] Ken: as long as you can maintain the diversification on the links
    [8:21:11 PM] surya: i guarantee link building
    [8:21:12 PM] Ken: Actually.
    [8:21:15 PM] Ken: Do me a favor
    [8:21:17 PM] surya: replacement if the links are broken
    [8:21:18 PM] surya: yes
    [8:21:18 PM] Ken: Lets start off with one trial run
    [8:21:21 PM] surya: ok
    [8:21:22 PM] Ken: -=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=-
    Website:
    http://bestheartratemonitor-reviews.org

    Keywords:
    Best Heart Rate Monitor
    Best Heart Rate Monitors
    Heart Rate Monitor Reviews
    Heart Rate Monitor Watches
    Best Heart Rate Monitor Watch

    -=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=--=-=-
    [8:21:26 PM] Ken: Lets see what you can do for this site
    [8:21:29 PM] surya: sure
    [8:21:39 PM] Ken: How long will it take you? Ill be back after my meeting later this afternoon
    [8:21:44 PM] Ken: but these keywords are already ranking I think
    [8:21:52 PM] surya: to do the package or to give u an estimate?
    [801 PM] *** Ken sent Heart_Rate_Rankings.png ***
    [803 PM] surya: package.. id need 4 business days at least.. can go up to 7
    [826 PM] Ken: Okay do you think you can do a package for me? If its all good and set we can do this for the rest of my sites?
    [829 PM] surya: the results on yahoo & bing are promising
    [853 PM] surya: i can do the first site too for the same price.. ur a friend of bigbuddy
    [815 PM] surya: if ur impressed with the quality of the work and the results, we can scale up
    [821 PM] Ken: Definitely
    [827 PM] Ken: If this works, you can expect a lot of return business
    [831 PM] Ken: These are for clients of mine
    [832 PM] surya: thank you
    [836 PM] Ken: so Im looking to outsource countless websites
    [837 PM] Ken: :P
    [843 PM] surya: shud i send you over an invoice now?
    [850 PM] surya: cause that pricing wudnt be there on the site
    [819 PM] Ken: Sure so you can do this for me with a trial report right?
    [826 PM] Ken: So we can do this on the other sites?
    [838 PM] surya: yes. u will have a complete report at ur end
    [8:25:07 PM] surya: every link submitted to linklicious too for faster indexing
    [8:25:16 PM] Ken: Great great.. This sounds promising
    [8:25:25 PM] Ken: So in 4-7 days get back to me with a report
    [8:25:33 PM] Ken: Then we can complete the payments for the other 9 sites
    [8:25:37 PM] Ken: Sound fine?
    [8:25:49 PM] surya: hmm i guess ud need pay upfront for the one site
    [8:26:16 PM] surya: sorry.. i guess i got the msg wrong earlier.. but payments upfront ot start with
    [8:26:30 PM] surya: once we have a process going, we can get into a relaxed mehcanism of working
    [8:26:44 PM] Ken: Oh damn
    [804 PM] Ken: I thought you just said you could give me a free trial to see the quality of your work
    [813 PM] Ken: Is that still a possibility?
    [815 PM] surya: am sorry.. that wudnt be possible..
    [819 PM] Ken: Im looking to outsource all my work to someone
    [819 PM] surya: i understand.. but thats a policy
    [8:29:25 PM] surya: i can send u a sample report i did for my own site recently.. its a costlier package.. but am ranking like 20th for "article writing" just after that, and was not even in top 300 until then
    [800 PM] Ken: Alright well I make payments with my credit card and the lower the number of transactions I do a month the easier it is to monitor
    [812 PM] Ken: I'd like to pay in full at 160/per site
    [814 PM] surya: hmmm
    [826 PM] Ken: 1440, is what it would come up too
    [839 PM] Ken: but I dont feel completely comfortable without a trial run
    [843 PM] Ken: Hopefully you understand
    [801 PM] surya: that is the reason, u invest on one transaction, rest 8 u can make one payment
    [8:37:04 PM] Ken: Yeah I know but I had made to many payments this month already on transactions all over India and it really affects my taxes/business
    [8:37:07 PM] Ken: so Id like to lower the number
    [8:37:19 PM] Ken: So tell me if you can do a 4-7 day trial for me
    [8:37:24 PM] Ken: If not thats perfectly fine
    [8:37:29 PM] Ken: if yes, I'm definitely on board.
    [8:37:34 PM] surya: sorry mate.. as i said, its a policy
    [8:37:39 PM] Ken: Okay np
    [8:37:43 PM] Ken: Nice talking with you
    [8:37:47 PM] Ken: I normally would pay upfront
    [8:38:02 PM] Ken: its just I had paid for many link building services from India with 0 results and really bad quality links
    [8:38:09 PM] surya: same here.. looking forward to hear from you soon
    [8:38:11 PM] Ken: I thought you'd be different because BigBuddy recommended you
    [8:38:38 PM] surya: let's do something then.. i will generate just the 25 property linkwheel within 2 days
    [8:38:45 PM] surya: u have the report, but without the logins
    [8:39:08 PM] surya: if ur happy with the way things are going ahead, pay and I will finish the rest of the report, else I remove the content and delete the posts.
    [8:39:26 PM] Ken: Ok Surya I'll give it a shot
    [8:39:27 PM] Ken: Lets do it
    [8:39:42 PM] Ken: So your gonna be targeting all 5 keywords rgiht?
    [8:39:45 PM] surya: yes
    [8:39:55 PM] Ken: Ok thats all I ask
    [8:39:57 PM] Ken: Lets do this.
    [8:40:00 PM] surya: great
    [8:40:25 PM] surya: u shud have the linkwheel report by monday evening, as saturday and sunday wud be holidays
    [805 PM] Ken: ok awesome just hit me on skype
    [813 PM] Ken: or send it to PremiumAdvertisement@Hotmail.com so I can take a look
    [817 PM] surya: sure
    This ass is still lurking on BHW; looking for those innocent sellers out there. I checked with BB, and he doesn't know who the hell this guy is. So BEWARE!

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  15. #55
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Pretty much this exact thing happened to me a few days ago via Skype. Guy named Mike hits me up for some SEO, says he'll pay 500/week on a subscription, says he got referred by a friend named "Greg" (lol BTB reference).

    I tell him I need payment up front, he tries to haggle me down from 1 week free trial to at least one day's worth of work before he'll pay. I tell him I need to talk to the other lads I work with, I look at his Skype ID and find kenb27 or something.

    Search that on BHW, the "Kalyken is Nekylak!" thread pops up.

    I come back to Skype and say "Um, you seem to be connected to some pretty untoward activity on BHW."

    Suddenly, no response.

    N

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by apekillape View Post
    Pretty much this exact thing happened to me a few days ago via Skype. Guy named Mike hits me up for some SEO, says he'll pay 500/week on a subscription, says he got referred by a friend named "Greg" (lol BTB reference).

    I tell him I need payment up front, he tries to haggle me down from 1 week free trial to at least one day's worth of work before he'll pay. I tell him I need to talk to the other lads I work with, I look at his Skype ID and find kenb27 or something.

    Search that on BHW, the "Kalyken is Nekylak!" thread pops up.

    I come back to Skype and say "Um, you seem to be connected to some pretty untoward activity on BHW."

    Suddenly, no response.

    N
    Fortunately, he ain't smart enough as a scamster to keep using the same skype handle. Jackass keeps picking up names like bigbuddy or greg hoping someone or the other would fall for it. The lamest excuse I heard in my life, "I don't like too many transactions on my card"! I almost said make one full payment upfront, who's stopping you!

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    so scam?
    almost i have found in service like xxx.com is a real service but have xxx.org as the same
    .org and .net almost scam LOL!

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by apekillape View Post
    Pretty much this exact thing happened to me a few days ago via Skype. Guy named Mike hits me up for some SEO, says he'll pay 500/week on a subscription, says he got referred by a friend named "Greg" (lol BTB reference).

    I tell him I need payment up front, he tries to haggle me down from 1 week free trial to at least one day's worth of work before he'll pay. I tell him I need to talk to the other lads I work with, I look at his Skype ID and find kenb27 or something.

    Search that on BHW, the "Kalyken is Nekylak!" thread pops up.

    I come back to Skype and say "Um, you seem to be connected to some pretty untoward activity on BHW."

    Suddenly, no response.

    N
    I recommend other backlink services all the time as well as other services that I have found to be good but I NEVER tell the person I send to other service providers that they will or should get special treatment or pricing.

    That would be stepping in someone else's business and totally inappropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by seoguru13 View Post
    "I don't like too many transactions on my card"!
    Neither do I but I am married so I have no say in the matter.

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Aaaaand... He's back!

    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackha...65-income.html

    Quote Originally Posted by BassTrackerBoats View Post
    Neither do I but I am married so I have no say in the matter.
    I feel your pain, my friend.
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by BassTrackerBoats View Post
    Neither do I but I am married so I have no say in the matter.
    Lol... so am I, and I'd love that card unused if possible, but ain't that lucky. And, your perspective is different, to stay better organized, so you'd rather pay in advance, while this guy wanted to cheat people! Shucks, hate such people!

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by phpbuilt View Post
    Bullshit. Damn I don't really have time for this but now you got me doing it anyways. Hmm should I make a shitlist thread just for you? or just add on to this one. Ok lets just keep it here for now.

    First of all, I know you're not Kalyken. I've examined your writing sytle and its not the same. But you colluded with Kalyken to sell his service outside of the BST thread, KNOWING he was banned, and you didn't care ... you did it anyways. And the thread you started ... that amazing glowing review you did of ibacklinks.org, you didn't write that. Kalyken did and you posted it for him.

    You want proof? Ok here comes the proof.

    Don't you just love scrapers? Sure, we all do. That amazing thread you posted for ibacklinks.org is still out there, sitting on a scraper's site.

    There it is, everyone read it if you want to refresh your memory.

    Now I hate to post this because I know Kalyken is reading it, and I hate to give him a method of covering his tracks, but you know what? Double dot ellipsis is rare. The correct method of doing an ellipsis is 3 dots (...) Kalyken just loves double dotted ellipsis. I'll prove that soon enough. No one else uses them. You don't use them.

    You have 257 posts on BHW right now. I've read every single one of them. You never used double ellipsis on any of them, except the 1 that got deleted.

    The title ... "Could I have found the ultimate loophole?.." (abnormal double ellipsis). The article itself used 4. That's 5 double ellipsis, and the writing style doesn't match yours in other areas.

    Now lets take a look at Kalyken ...

    Read Kalyken's current sell thread at Flippa.

    Scroll down to that post by romilnew

    ------------------------

    Why are you selling? ibacklinks is frequently discussed in a skype group I'm in with over 4000 people.. I can't think of any reason for why you would sell.. I remembering placing an order a month ago and seen amazing results through your services.. I hope it is managed by the same service provider.. I just have to tell you now that I own a SEO company myself and have been outsourcing all the work to ibacklinks, so please keep the site running.

    ------------------------

    How many double ellipsis do you count? That's Kalyken's type. Same style used in your "Could I have found the ultimate loophole?.." post five times.

    If you look in the Google cache for page 2 of that ultimate loophole thread you started on BHW (the only page that remains) you'll see everyone who defends ibacklinks.org uses double ellipsis. Including sidaz ... now I don't want to implicate sidaz in on this but I found this pretty weird.



    That is from page 2 of that ultimate loophole thread that is still in Google as of now. Kalyken typed that thing that shows sidaz as having typed, but that was a quote which can be fabricated/pasted (I've reviewed every single post of sidaz too and he never uses double ellipsis).

    But anyways ... how common could it possibly be that someone would boast of skype groups of 4000 and using double ellipsis in the same paragraph? That defense typed there was Kalyken. The poster on Kalyken's ibacklinks.org sales thread at Flippa is Kalyken. If sidaz really did post that post, then it was probably spoon-fed to him to post it in that thread, just like you (JimmyConway) was spoon fed the original post.

    Few more examples of Kalyken's love for .. .. ..



    So whats the deal? I'll tell you what I think happened. I think Kalyken offered you a few bucks to shill his sales thread for you in the blackhat folder, with the gimmick of getting a $70 coupon "hacker style". You knew it was a gimmick. You knew Kalyken was banned. You knew it was an attempt to sidestep the buy/sell thread. You did it anyways.

    I think its deserving of a ban. I don't care if you get banned or not. But don't sit there acting all innocent ... you did what you did and now the next time you give a glowing review of something, it won't mean squat, because we know you're willing to lie.

    And by the way, is this you? If it is, did you realize you only get 1 account and if it gets banned, you're not allowed another? Don't make me go analyze that accounts old posts and all your current posts to see if its the same account, because I will. ;p

    I'm just tired of this bullcrap. I bust Kalyken for making an account called Nekylak and he learns "oh crap I better stop using palindromes". Now he's going to be like "oh damn I better stop using double elipsis".. .. .. .. .. I counted many different accounts in that thread defending ibacklinks.org all using double ellipsis, but chasing down someone who OBVIOUSLY has a gazillion accounts is starting to be a pain in the arse.

    As for you ... tell the truth. Kalyken screws everyone, I'm sure he screwed you too, or he really won't answer you now. Just say "yeah, I posted for him, but I didn't realize crap would hit the fan like this, if I could go back in time I wouldn't have done it, the money he gave me wasn't worth it. Now he took me down along with him and I'm forever associated with that creep, he won't answer me now and my rep is tarnished." No problem, then we would know you have no ability to help the people that are getting scammed by him, you currently can't access him.
    lmao I saw my avatar and tripped out hard, I don't get what my Joe Rogan reference has to do with the thread though
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  23. #62
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    lmao I saw my avatar and tripped out hard, I don't get what my Joe Rogan reference has to do with the thread though
    Hey there. I used that pic because you quoted "sidaz". I would have used the original quote, except that thread was deleted and the only evidence of it left was the Google cache page of the 2nd page of the thread ... where you quoted sidaz.

    I was making reference how everyone in that thread who was defending ibacklinks.org had the same writing patterns, especially the double dot ellipsis which is rare (..)

    My point about that quoted text was that #1, it used double dot ellipsis, and #2, that it said that ibacklinks.org is commonly mentioned in a skype user group of 4000 users.

    The (..) is one hint that the writer was Kalyken. Then in that flippa thread where Kalyken was trying to sell ibacklinks.org, he posted a fake positive review of the site saying it was "commonly mentioned in a skype group of over 4000 users".

    In other words ... the guy you quoted was Kalyken. There may be some connection between sidaz and Kalyken, I don't think sidaz is Kalyken but he could have been spoon fed a positive thing to say in that thread, just like JimmyConway was spoon fed the whole OP in that thread.

    The whole thing is moot now though. Jimmy mentioned it was a mistake and I've forgotten about it already.

    I wasn't making any reference to you by showing that pic, didn't even read the text you wrote, sorry if there was a misunderstanding.
    Last edited by phpbuilt; 12-18-2011 at 04:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    ibacklinks.org isn't accepting new orders, says:

    We are currently unavailable for new orders. Sorry for any inconvenience as our payment system is currently down.
    ROFLMAO. He uses PayPal, but his "payment system is currently down"?

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by soooted View Post
    ibacklinks.org isn't accepting new orders, says:


    ROFLMAO. He uses PayPal, but his "payment system is currently down"?
    He's been trying to get rid of that site with no success for a while now after he fucked up his reputation...

    Check out these threads, pretty funny shit to be honest.
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackha...ss-flippa.html
    http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackha...-back-bhw.html

  26. #65
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Whats sad is his site actually looks better than the other guys
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by HKSEO Rotzee View Post
    Whats sad is his site actually looks better than the other guys
    Yeah, he probably scammed the designer too.
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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    When a person is using PayPal for their merchant processing and a customer clicks on a payment link and sees the error message below, that means PP dropped the bomb on that vendor. So apparently K got the boot from PP because this is the exact same message one gets when clicking on his purchase links.


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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Ken's identity - real name, home address, phone number, email, handles, is known. Ken won't be scamming this community any more. Right, Ken?

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    Default Re: Scammed by iBackLinks.org

    Quote Originally Posted by wrangler View Post
    Ken's identity - real name, home address, phone number, email, handles, is known. Ken won't be scamming this community any more. Right, Ken?
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