Gorush contacted me on twoplustwo, interested in buying a share of my action in poker. He agreed to send $2k on monday. The two other buyers already sent their $2k and i started playing, trusting that Gorush would send his part in the next days. I catched a horrible run right at the beginning and Gorush used that to vanish, removing me from Skype and ignoring me everywhere else. He basically saved about $1300. I even offered him to take 50% of the losses even tho i wouldn't have to, yet he never responded.

Part of the Skype Chatlog where he agrees that the deal was sealed:
GoRushbhw: ja
GoRushbhw: eine frage: fängt jetzt das staken am montag an - oder schon heute??
GoRushbhw: die andern haben schon bezahlt richtig?
micha: würds direkt anfangen lassen oder?
GoRushbhw: also eigentlich wäre das fair wenn jeder gleichzeitig anfängt : P
GoRushbhw: also jo
GoRushbhw: 50 - 50 wird share sein richtig?
micha: yep

I have more logs/mails and his real name (if he didn't make it up) but i guess someone doing transfers with him probably has his real one. Would post that when i am allowed to.

If you have something about him or got any questions pls contact me on Skype: michalolol

Thanks.

wtf?

You play poker for others money?

What is this shit?

He's saying the guy was meant to front him the money, from what I can tell.

Along these lines.

1. Finance a good poker player 50/50 for a tournament out of his price range.
2. Do well (Hopefully)
3. Win loads of money and split it down the middle.

Not uncommon way of trying to boost your earnings for some poker players.

Although 'front' the money seems a little inaccurate as it seems he paid it all upfront hoping his other guy would stump up the money later :S

Be carefull with online transaction! You may be tricked!

Yea pretty much. Stakers invest into players and you share the profits, usually 50/50 and return the staked amount at the end.
If you lose money you get into makeup which means you have to keep playing until you get out of it or the staker decides to end the deal and take the losses. There are plenty of reasons for staking to exist and i have always made some good profits and so have my backers, the current deal just started out and variance is being a huge bi*** atm, the downside of pokerz

Originally Posted by johnbobby

He's saying the guy was meant to front him the money, from what I can tell.

Along these lines.

1. Finance a good poker player 50/50 for a tournament out of his price range.
2. Do well (Hopefully)
3. Win loads of money and split it down the middle.

Not uncommon way of trying to boost your earnings for some poker players.

Although 'front' the money seems a little inaccurate as it seems he paid it all upfront hoping his other guy would stump up the money later :S

Yup it is actually a lot more common than you would expect, a guy even went on dragons den with the offer a couple of series back.

The thing is when money like this is involved you have to deal assuming zero trust, you cannot expect him to pay after he knows its a loss, would you have paid him if you had won and he hadn't put the cash up before hand?

Indeed, OP certainly should have got the money upfront or found another backer/taken the risk himself.

I guess he did take the risk himself, he just didn't know about it until after

"would you have paid him if you had won and he hadn't put the cash up before hand?"

yea i would of course, otherwise it would have been a scam the other way around and my self-esteem and reputation are worth more to me than any amount of money. Besides that the thing is he probably would have sent the money if i started out with some winnings.

lol he lost 4 k in 2 hours PLAYING 1on1 and he played the wrong limit- I told him not to play it - he did... The worst things is he went higher up in the limits after losing.
I asked him if he tilts? He said no.... HE did ... 4 k loosing is the prove plus moving up in the limits.

Its true that i wanted to stake him - But i told him NOT TO tilt. Start smaller limit and move up was the plan. He played higher as told.

I asked for the hand history to see if it was just bad luck - it wasnt... He didnt even tell me that he played 1on1 and the wrong limit....So jeah i dont stake him , when he doesnt even keep his promise on the first few hours....I told him to take a break after losing a few hundred. HE DID NOT!! He flamed the people in the chat...

Post the handhistory .... should be prove enough.

Gorush, about 50% of the losses were 1on1 and it were on the limits we agreed on, i don't know what your plan is by making up lies now - i said by myself that i won't play 1on1 unless it's a bad player, which was the case for the guy i played. I even sent you by mail that i was willing to take those 50% of losses anyway (which i wouldn't even have to - look up the convo on skype) which accured in 1on1. You didn't answer it, removed me from skype, ignored all my messages afterwards.
"I told him to take a break after losing a few hundred"
Straight up lie that doesn't even make any sense at all. I allways trashtalk at the tables which doesn't mean i'm playing worse or i'm in such anger.

Hope you feel proud of yourself Gorush. You vanished after i started out with a huge downswing because of variance and not bad play - i'm just lucky i found you here and you have to respond and make up lies to safe face.

Tell me why you didn't answer when i told you i was willing to take up 50% on my own. Even if i played other limits which wasn't the case and i would pay them on my own, does that give you a free shot to just disappear and not care about the other losses?

"to see if it was just bad luck - it wasnt..."

lol you have to be kidding me, try using a EV calculator with sklansky bucks, and try to figure out how the game works, you have no clue and keep making up random lies.

"The worst things is he went higher up in the limits after losing."
lol right..., eric served you well, karma i guess. scammer getting scammed, how pathetic.

removing me from skype / ignoring me and making up your own mind that i broke the agreement, which i didn't, speaks for itself.

I dont need to justify myself here on bhw but here: Judge yourself guys.


[20.08.2011 21:21:30] erkann ja zwischen den limits spielen?
[20.08.2011 21:21:30] GoRushbhw: von 10-20 bis 30-60?

[20.08.2011 21:21:56] micha: jo immer dort wo die action läuft und hu vermeiden ausser es ist nen richtiger waal :P
[20.08.2011 2114] micha: imo
[20.08.2011 2150] GoRushbhw: ha vermeidu HU
[20.08.2011 2156] micha: ^^
[20.08.2011 2157] Hannes S.: find die Idee von GoRu gut.

[20.08.2011 2140] GoRushbhw: ja oder erstmal bisschen bei den niedrigen limits TANKEN dann - einen shot für 30-60 nehmen
[20.08.2011 2147] Hannes S.: und wenn du droppest - unter eine Grenze die wir jetzt festlegen - spielst du erstmal die level darunter. so was ist eh klar?
[20.08.2011 2149] GoRushbhw: du wirst schon das richtige finden
[20.08.2011 2157] Hannes S.: find die Idee von GoRu gut.


So it says: He starts playing on smaller limits (when there are no other tables)- he played BIGGER (there were smaller tables) - If he losses he goes DOWN - HE went UP. (look handhistory)

I asked HIM : DO you tilt - he said no - i hear music and take a break and fine it is.

Well I think he tilted... otherwise he wouldnt have played and played until he lost all the money....


To be honest i asked him the next day (where i didnt know if he did loose) how he feels - he said BAD --- i told him no problem - take a break for a few days --- he then says : I have to take a break because i lost all the money....
I then asked for the handhistory to confirm - if his fault or not. IT was - he played FUCKING BAD and aggressiv!!! He kept playing - playing. until he lost all.

He didnt tell me at fist "Hey i lost more then 50% -its my fault".... After I LOOKED and asked why he did play 1on1 he told me He covers it...AND it is the last time playing 1on1 ... He didnt keep his promise in the first place - so why should he in the future?


I told him at the beginning - winning is easy BUT TO CONTROL YOURSELF IS the most important - can you do that? He said yes -
I told him not to play HU - he said yes he wont - he DID.


We agreed to try the "investment" for 3-4 weeks ...then we will see... well i didnt need that much to wait @ day 1 - everything was clear...




Post all data here if you want - i have nothing to hide...

here is the handhistory: http://www.mediafire.com/?86uouedc8rkg839

thanks

HE BROKE the agreement upfront - so IT would be dumb to stake him afterall..

Another fact: I wanted to stake him a lot more then we agreed on about 7.5 times more. I Told him" have a backup" it is always good. AND That you need that.
YOu can be the best player in the world and still loose. BE sure to make a BACKUP

Altough he had a backup for the smaller limits he kept playing higher limits...so there was basicly no backup for a "bad run"...


Dude if you want to play with the money from other people YOU HAVE TO TAKE responsibility!!! LOSING ALL MONEY IN A FEW HOURS - THIS IS A JOKE!

EVERYONE on this planet can double or triple the money in a short amount of time - but to KEEP it going and NOT losing it is the art!


thanks



EDIT: And @ everyone who doesnt understand ! I DIDNT STEAL or TAKE ANY MONEY from him.

HE LOST his money in a stupid way .... (otherwise he had some left - thats why i say stupid)

and HE WANTS TO COVER IT WITH MY Investment. ITS LIKE INVESTING to LEHMAN BROTHERS or into a BROKEN CAR..... SO basicly he is complaining that he DIDNT HAD THE CHANCE TO LOOSE MY MONEY !!!

Even if i made a mistake (which i didn't) you're not supposed to just vanish - you wouldn't do the same if you actually sent me the money or would you? It's so clear what you're doing. You scammed me and the others and you didn't type a word to anyone of us.

Can't post the Screenshot i made from my database because of posting rules and new account. That would have helped. It shows that i played inbetween our agreement.
In the copied convo of Skype it says i was allowed to play 10/20 up to 30/60 in limits, i played 9 hands of 30/60, won $20 and the rest was 15/30, totaly within our agreement.

It wasn't 100% clear if i was allowed to play 1on1 or not, yet i offered to just take the losses by myself which actually is a gentle move. He didn't even respond to that.
It's so obvious you're just trying to dodge some losses by making up false statements. Keeping me ignored on Skype and not answering my mails might be a hint?

"HE LOST his money in a stupid way .... (otherwise he had some left - thats why i say stupid)"
And some sentences above you claim the world best player can lose, which actually is the case. Besides that i wasn't even staked with a full bankroll, so there was a pretty fair chance i might go bust with it.

I think it doesn't stand up for discussions who of us has more experience in the game i'm playing. 4 years regular poster on 2+2 vs a 2 post? 1mio hands vs 2 sessions?
It's funny you want to judge on my playstyle. Sorry to the others if i sound arrogant here, but who wouldn't if someone with way less experience tries to make you look like a degen gambler instead of someone who is winning for years.


"HE WANTS TO COVER IT WITH MY Investment. ITS LIKE INVESTING to LEHMAN BROTHERS or into a BROKEN CAR..... SO basicly he is complaining that he DIDNT HAD THE CHANCE TO LOOSE MY MONEY !!!"
Really proofs that you have no clue about poker and it's variance. Everyone has swings, yea horrible swings way worse than mine and yet they are winning players, like myself.
I played about 900 hands that session - a solid sample size which reduces variance is 30k hands. You really have no clue what you're talking about, making up lies to save face because your reputation here means something to you.


tl;dr: Gorush claims he isn't supposed to keep his word on the sealed deal because A) i played bad B) i didn't play withing our agreement (which i actually did). Besides that he removed me from Skype, didn't talk a word to any of the other Stakers - which he basically scammed as much as me.

do whatever you want .... I wrote it above ...
its as you say: THERE we agree for the 1on1 part and the limit part. You say there is no agreement .... please post the Screen or a link to it.... should be the same or not??
You still say that you played "like agreed" ... YOU DID NOT GO down in LIMITS. YOU TILTED - YOU PLAYED 1on1. WHAT ELSE DO I need?


"
[20.08.2011 21:21:30] erkann ja zwischen den limits spielen?
[20.08.2011 21:21:30] GoRushbhw: von 10-20 bis 30-60?

[20.08.2011 21:21:56] micha: jo immer dort wo die action läuft und hu vermeiden ausser es ist nen richtiger waal :P
[20.08.2011 2114] micha: imo
[20.08.2011 2150] GoRushbhw: ha vermeidu HU
[20.08.2011 2156] micha: ^^
[20.08.2011 2157] Hannes S.: find die Idee von GoRu gut.

[20.08.2011 2140] GoRushbhw: ja oder erstmal bisschen bei den niedrigen limits TANKEN dann - einen shot für 30-60 nehmen
[20.08.2011 2147] Hannes S.: und wenn du droppest - unter eine Grenze die wir jetzt festlegen - spielst du erstmal die level darunter. so was ist eh klar?
[20.08.2011 2149] GoRushbhw: du wirst schon das richtige finden
[20.08.2011 2157] Hannes S.: find die Idee von GoRu gut.


So it says: He starts playing on smaller limits (when there are no other tables)- he played BIGGER (there were smaller tables) - If he losses he goes DOWN - HE went UP. (look handhistory)

I asked HIM : DO you tilt - he said no - i hear music and take a break and fine it is.

Well I think he tilted... otherwise he wouldnt have played and played until he lost all the money...."



ps: YOU TOLD ME THAT the 1on1 guy was a BREAKEVEN player - which means he isnt a "fish" .... And you played him?? I dont get it - YOU dont admit das YOU WERE very angry when you played at that moment - and made a lot of mistakes.

YOU played him BEcause you wanted to cover the losses - NOT TO WIN. YOu didnt have a clear head.

THe handhistory is proof enough! Otherwise you would have taken a 1-2 hour break after losing 1-2 k .....


ps: I wrote one of your investors: He didnt response. Then i told myself: Luckily i didnt invest - this way i could save some money. Thats true.

I CAN INVEST IN a BOAT that has the potential to "swim" - but not for a boat that is broken in the bottom of the sea....


AGAIN : i dont "waste" money for a aggressiv/inresponsible guy like you. LOSSING 4 k in a few hours is enough.... you can tell me whatever you want....

You lost 50% to one guy -- maybe he is your friend - i dont know - i dont care anymore.....



I AM 100% sure that you would have lost 50k that day if you had that much in ur acc...


Pss : You clearly are an addict gambler - otherwise you would take your break and fine is.... Thats why you are looking for excuses for losing....

Fact is you lost ALL the money - You would have lost my investment too...


peace

Another thing : I wrote with him only a few hours or so - I asked him a few questions: HE answered all: The most important part was "DO you tilt"- what are you doing WHEN.... I though that he had a BRAIN . Meaning that he cares for the money that were given to him.... LOSING ALL MONEY is proof enough - that this addict is looking for excuses.

I watched him a bit playing - after i saw a few questionable moves - i wanted to ask him anyways for the handhistory.
LOSING 2 k or so I would understand - BUT ALL ??? REALLY?????
I told him the next day to take a break - Then he says He lost all - he "has" to take a break until he has my money.

Best joke ever.....


AFTER I saw his LIES and addiction etc. he OFFERS to cover some losses - NOT BEFORE.

I have to trust this guy i never met before with MY Money - SO NOONE can expect me to invest in him after seeing - what he is made of.

I dont want to waste anymore time chatting with you. I will contact an admin and let him decide.

All things I wrote are all true - You are twisting things to your "favor"

Go to therapy for your addiction problem ... I really mean it.


thanks


PS: You never really agreed that the ACTION will BEGIN NOW OR MONDAY -- I offered it to you - that is true. But you never said yes.
Fact is: I really am happy that i did not invest - EVEN If you would have turned it around - You cleary have a problem....YOu want more and more - you will never stop. thats ADDICTION.

Can't post links or screenshots because of limitations on the new account here, otherwise i would.

"Luckily i didnt invest - this way i could save some money. Thats true."
Yea that was your thought process exactly and that's why you're a scammer even if it's hard for you to understand for whatever reason. I told you that 100bb swings are normal or possible and now you're acting like i pressed buttons without any thought and lost on purpose (makes sense for a winningplayer right).
At least you were able to write down what your intention was afterall.

Hannes stated that we could agree on a stop-loss where i would move down. This was obviously more meant for 30/60. 15/30 is almost equal to 10/20 because of it's better rake structure. Whatever we never agreed on anything regarding that, it was just a thought of Hannes and not you and you didn't respond to that. Besides that where would you want me to move to? 5/10 with 4bb/100 rake? You have no idea about the game like i already mentioned, none.

"after i saw a few questionable moves - i wanted to ask him anyways for the handhistory"
You didn't ask me after any moves, you asked me after i told you that i lost it so you could look for excuses to make a run.
I still don't get it. You don't understand the game and yet you keep trying to judge on my play. It's not possible for you, no matter how hard you try. It's like if i would walk over to a doctor and tell him how he has to do his stuff, just retarded.

"GoRushbhw: du wirst schon das richtige finden" - that's you stating that you would trust me to do the right thing. I did the right thing and it went as bad as it could, unluckily, yet the swing was something that was able to happen even without bad play.

"I AM 100% sure that you would have lost 50k that day"
What? Could you exaggerate any more? I dropped 130BB, 100BB swings are normal, it was more because of the higher variance of 1on1.

"THe handhistory is proof enough"
I even posted the handhistory on 2+2 myself because it was kind of a joke how bad i was running and not how i was playing.

"You clearly are an addict gambler"
yea clearly an addict(rofl) gambler that one of the top3 backers invested into me two times and made decent profits both times. I started out with a similiar swing there btw. but guess what? He didn't cry and accused me of being an addict gambler and just resent and we made our money in the long run - and that's what poker is about, the long run.


I'm not sure why i posted all of this while you already claimed that your intention was scamming after you've seen the losses. You made it up like i was playing bad and played out of the range of our agreement which all wasn't the case but in the end you're just what you are, a thief.

i have this strange urge to go to the track... anyone want to invest some money while I pick a pony that can win a race?

I posted the handhistory. Everyone can see it and judge himself.
You dont admit making a BIG mistake by throwing away the money when you are tilted....

btw. you said you never had a 100 bb swing - now you say you have... you trap yourself dude.

You are really a fucking liar.....

I wrote an admin - let him decide.

Where did you post the handhistory? Are you drunk?
You posted the Skype convo if that's what you're talking about.
I said i never had a 200bb swing. You are pathetic.

"You are really a fucking liar....."
lol nice random statement while you actually said that you made a run dodging a bad start combined with some losses. Now i am the liar, you really are capable of some brain farts.

"The Captain", not sure what the sarcasm and ignorance is for, maybe just a friend of Gorush but i guess people also wouldn't like it if i made fun of them in other sh** list threads while they got scammed. I am happy Gorush got scammed by Eric tho.

Gorush a deal is a deal, your lack of knowledge about poker and it's variance doesn't give you the right as a staker to vanish as soon as it doesn't start out with profits.

Gorush can upload and link it, i sent them to him via mail - i can't post links here.

here again: look above!!!!

here is the handhistory: http://www.mediafire.com/?86uouedc8rkg839

thanks


HAHA BAD start.... LOOSING ALL MONEY in few hours....without taking a break or a shot in the lower stakes !!!!

DUDE so i need 120 k or more to invest in you - so you can play 1 month of poker?? YOu dont realize that i want to invest to make money not to statisfy someones addictions.....

Yea bad start, i played 900 hands which isn't even a small sample, it's nothing.

You have no idea what a staker's rights and duties are, you don't know anything about variance or omaha/8 in general.
Staking isn't a banking investment that just slightly goes up, it has its swings but usually pays off a lot better. Maybe you should have informed yourself better before trying to get into it.
And lol about you as a scammer trying to make me look like an addict. I had 5 deals where i was able to put in enough volume and not just 900 hands, guess how many of the 5 deals ended in profit? Right 5.

Anyways my poker skills doesn't matter, even if i were a losing player you still wouldn't be allowed to back out afterwards without paying if you agreed on a deal. It was a straight up scam from you.
It's like you invest into the stock market and as soon as you're losing you would somehow transfer the money back - but only if you're losing of course.

Why is this on this section of BHW when Gorush didn't give you funds and you didn't give him any?

Seems like Gorush changed his mind and that is perfectly fine.

People can change their mind all the time until a deal is consummated.

How did he scam you?

He didn't take money from you and not produce products or services, did he?

Me thinks thou doth protest too much.

Originally Posted by cbt111

"The Captain", not sure what the sarcasm and ignorance is for, maybe just a friend of Gorush but i guess people also wouldn't like it if i made fun of them in other sh** list threads while they got scammed. I am happy Gorush got scammed by Eric tho.

huh? I don't even know gorush, this thread provides very little interest for me (except picking a winner at the track).
what makes you think that anyone even cares about your pathetic shitlist? it was a deal made on a poker forum between a gambling addict and someone that wanted a quick buck. Why is it always up to the mods of BHW to sort out the problems created outside the forum? take it to the poker forum.

what makes you think that anyone even cares about your pathetic shitlist?

Well if i was about to have a deal with someone who was a scammer somwhere else, i would care. Maybe you are just different.

it was a deal made on a poker forum between a gambling addict

Ty sir, what are you? Selling adds for pron sites? Obv you have all my respect since you're something better than me.

take it to the poker forum

If Gorush agrees on that, sure thing. I doubt it because he ignored me until i posted here, because he wants to save face even tho he knows he's a thief.
Well Gorush if you're willing to do that - go on 2+2, section twoplustwo - marketplace - negative feedback forum. I already posted the situation along with your details.
If they have the feeling you're in the right they will remove it, but we both know that will never happen, ok maybe you don't because you don't know what staking and poker is about in the first place.

This thread remind me something



BTW if this JV was outside of BHW thn this thread not gonna help anyone.

Originally Posted by cbt111

If Gorush agrees on that, sure thing. I doubt it because he ignored me until i posted here, because he wants to save face even tho he knows he's a thief.

How is he a thief if he took nothing from you?

Why is this a BHW issue since it took place on another forum?

Kindly answer those questions when you have a minute.

How is he a thief if he took nothing from you?

If you buy something via EDD, you receive the item and then make a back posting for that money, isn't that stealing? It's a similiar situation here.

Why is this a BHW issue since it took place on another forum?

It's not directly but like i said i would care if someone scammed on another forum. Do you have a different view on that and would trust your money into someone just because he had a good reputation on your forum but scammed on another one?

Gorush and i can talk about it on 2+2, i made that suggestion in my comment above.

Originally Posted by cbt111

If you buy something via EDD, you receive the item and then make a back posting for that money, isn't that stealing? It's a similiar situation here.

I don't know what EDD is but he sent you no money, you sent him none.

There has to be some kind of taking without receiving to call something stealing.

It's not directly but like i said i would care if someone scammed on another forum. Do you have a different view on that and would trust your money into someone just because he had a good reputation on your forum but scammed on another one?

I still see no scam. I don't know him/her but you're calling out someone for not doing what they said they were going to do as opposed to ripping you off in some sort of backhanded way.

BTW, this is not "my" forum. It's a privilege that I am allowed to be a member and you should show the same respect to the owners and mods of this forum.

Gorush and i can talk about it on 2+2, i made that suggestion in my comment above.

Which is what you should be doing anyway. If he does not respond on that forum, take it up with a mod there.

This doesn't belong here at all as this is not a BHW issue.

Issues on other forums belong on other forums; issues on this forum belong on this forum... plain and simple.

Take your complaint where it belongs please.

I was gonna say the same thing... Take it outside. This has nothing to do with BHW at all.

If I were gorush I wouldn't have paid you either. You go ahead playing before he sends you his money? I see nothing wrong with his thinking. If you had chosen to pay him even if he hadn't sent you any of the money then you would have done so in error and we'd probably see him ranting on your forum about how you didn't pay him despite him not having given any money.

I don't know what EDD is

Electronic direct debit

There has to be some kind of taking without receiving to call something stealing.

Freerolling on someone is the same thing, if i won he would have invested his money, if i lost he would (and did) make a run.

It's a privilege that I am allowed to be a member and you should show the same respect to the owners and mods of this forum.

Guess you know what i meant by "your forum". I didn't show any disrespect at all.

This doesn't belong here at all as this is not a BHW issue.

This is your opinion. I think reputation on here means something? Maybe i'm mistaken but i think that's how people fell for that Eric Creed guy? So why wouldn't you want any info about someone who scammed, just because it was on another forum? Kinda stupid imo.

This has nothing to do with BHW at all.

Not with BHW but with the reputation of one of its members.

You go ahead playing before he sends you his money? I see nothing wrong with his thinking.

That was what we had agreed on.

If you had chosen to pay him even if he hadn't sent you any of the money then you would have done so in error

If he didn't send it for WEEKS yes, he said he would send it in a cpl of days. That speculation doesn't make any sense tho.

So by your rationale if I agree to buy a car from you and then never show up to pick it up, I am a thief.

Get some therapy for your gambling addiction.

Since when do we accept shit list threads from 0 post newbies who joined specifically to post about something that didn't even transpire here? Lame. Thread closed.