Hey there,

First of all I'm not sure this is the exact location to place my thread, but here I go...

I found this company in freelancer, they had a very good possitive feedback and some nice websites in their portfolio. I'm not sure if I can name them, but I wont do that for now, if I can name them I will be happy to do so, so noone of you get hurt!

So we contacted on skype and they wanted me to use paypal as a payment method instead of freelancer in order to skip the charges, that was OK for me back then because I tought they are a big company and they want their name clear, so they wont do anything stupid.... so far so good we started the project with a deadline of 30 days after the 1st payment... there were some delays by my side which resulted in a ~15 days delay, however, the project is in proccess for almost 90 days already!

So I wanted to speak with their boss in order to make them compensate me, he said ok we will and told me to speak again in 2 days.... yeah he came back and told me that they are not going to finish the project unless I pay them more... WTF?? I'm asking for compensation and hes coming back to ask for more money... srsly?

I tought OK i will be able to do a chargeback but then I saw that I can do that only 45 days after a payment. So far the total I have paid them is $840, where $360 of those money are transfered a while ago, so 45 days already gone...
After that I read that any Indien customer of paypal have to withdrawal all their funds in a 7 days period, so basicly they are not having any money in their paypal at all (or at least most of the time...) so how will paypal be able to give me my money back when they already withdrawed it?

When I told the boss that I'm going to make a cargeback he said its ok for him, so I guess there is a little secret that I don't know and probably I cant take my money back from an Indien company?

I have skype historyes, however, I guess paypal wont respect that... is there a chance to get my moneyback with a chargeback? And any chance for those $360 paid to them, which 45's days have gone already?

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to be sure you will get my point...

P.S. english is not my first language obviously, not even 2nd lol...

Thanks,
Hades

Do you mean Indian?

Yes, sorry Im not sure about the difference....

There is probably no way to get your money back.

There is a reason for these freelance sites like Odesk, it's to protect the buyer as well as the seller. So that you get your product and the freelancer gets his money.

Just see it as a very expensive lesson

So I can't even do a chargeback for the money that are still in the 45 day period?

they withdraw money within 7 days [to follow indian pp rules] <--- it is not going to save them from a chargeback
i know this. chargeback.....you will get money back .

Well from stories I have read they have go into a negative balance... So I guess chargeback will be working!

You've got it easy, an Indian stole 5k from me...

I really hope that the chargeback works and you get your money back from these bastards. I've heard that calling paypal and explaining the situation might help in some cases, so it's worth a shot.

This is what I did and got 75% refund back for my friend who hired a shitty Indian SEO company from New Delhi. They ripped him off for 1000$ and provided some shitty backlinks from some low ranking blogs, when I saw the back links I could easily spot they were nothing more than a scrapebox blast on a AA list, which should cost like $15 and not $1k.

I asked the owner that he is trying to rip of my friend about his ignorance and he should refund his money or atleast provide value of the money he charged. But he never replied to me.

This is what I did, I booked a .net and .org of their main domain name.

I installed wordpress on them and posted some articles about the scam shit that they do and all the crap services they are providing. I put the name of the company in all posts and the site's meta tag and desc.

WP is very good at onsite seo and within a week my 2 sites were on google page 1 for his company name.

Mind it, just the company name, not even scam or reviews in the search term.

I then mailed him and asked him to check his google search results and told him I will be doing my SEO work on it and make sure it stays on first page of google forever.

They tried all their means to get me de-indexed or move the 2 domains down, but couldn't and finally refunded my friend 750$.

You can do something similar, it would cost you $50 may be but you can get all you money back since this can throw the company out of business.

And ya, Welcome to the Era of Digital Extortion Use this method only for the good,don't extort genuine guys.

Indianbill

Thanks, indianbill007,

I was thinking to do the same + to open blogspot + wordpress and other free blogging systems. As well post the texts into forums and totally ruin their name.

What about the chargeback from paypal, do you think it will work out? I'm going to open a dispute tomorrow probably, have to agree that with my partner first. The only reason I haven't tried yet is because of my partner. I'm really sorry for involving him into this, the $360 which we can't get for sure now (45 days are already gone) are not a big loss for me, but for him its a big amount of money, so I'm trying to take the best descision.

Any help will be highly appreciated, thanks for your support guys.

Once again, can I name the company here? I don't want anyone else to deal with such unprofessional guys lol...

First mistake: You gave them a chance to judge you by agreeing for outside payments.

Do a chargeback and also notify the marketplace so that the company loses a lot more. Tell the marketplace that you didn't knew the procedure of the marketplace but it seems that the provider knew how to scam it (marketplace). That will put the company in the soup.

Third, since long time ago, I had been studying some of the Delhi based companies on sites like Gu*ru and E*la*nce and have seen what kind of manipulation is being done on there by these shady companies. Of course there can be better companies but these particular companies were pushing everyone else aside and getting all the juicy projects. So most other providers are only acting as bystanders while paying top fees to be there...

I believe that some management people on at least one of the two sites were from Delhi and I also believe -- after studying the patterns extensively -- that their own people were the top providers on those marketplaces... so there you go. Those companies are bringing a bad name to my country but I guess there are lot many things in my good country that needs to be thrown into the gutter forever by common people.

I feel extremely ashamed whenever the great name 'Indian' is joined with another name like 'scam'...

I am from India too, and understand the agony that several customers go through. I met an Indian guy and he was duped like some 4 times by different Indian SEO providers and wanted a written legal contract, personal phone number etc. He decided to work with me only after doing a background check on the given information.

OP.. as others have said, I guess paypal would show a negative balance. And one advantage with paypal in India is that a Personal Account Number (PAN - its used by income tax guys in India) is linked to a paypal account. Effectively, I can't have multiple paypal accounts linking to the same PAN. However, I do not think most service providers would have their business PAN linked to their paypal anyways.

if you got their contact information, like phone number etc, you could give a cheeky shot like taking the help of another Indian guy you can trust, and send them a fake legal notice or a call claiming to take legal action. Indian judiciary is gloriously fucked up, but most guys would shit in their pants at those words.

Thanks for all of your help guys!

Requested a feedback and scaled the problem to paypal, lets cross fingers and hope that I will win it

And yeah... quite expenssive lesson

How do you fund your paypal? Credit card, debit card or bank account? If you fund your paypal with credit card I would call directly the bank and make the chargeback there and will not deal with GAYPAL at all. But if you used debit card or bank account then you will have to rely on paypal disputes.

Regards

If it is freelancer.c0m that you found them through, you could threaten to expose them as scammers there.
Pretty sure it is against the tos to make deals outside of the website. Reporting them may get them banned and all the good feedback would go up in smoke along with their account.
If it works and you get your money back, report the bastards anyway to save someone else from getting scammed.
Good luck.

Since it is now more or less proven that they are a scam, why don't you disclose their name in this thread? At the very least, it would help other BHW members from doing business with them in the future and getting ripped-off too.

And ya, Welcome to the Era of Digital Extortion Use this method only for the good,don't extort genuine guys.

I have to say wow for that.

OP post the company name here if you fail to get your money back from that company so that others wont fall for this trick

I will post the name once the case is closed, I dont want them to find the chance before that, however, looks like the case is closed. I have made a total o 4 transfers, 2 of wich were made before longer than 45 days. I asked 1 of my translators for one of my site to make the dispute look professional and he made the text....
Paypal emailed me that they have posted an answer which I failed to find... however, I just woke up and I saw that they are "unfortunately not beeing able to decide this dispute in my favour"

Payments were done with debit card so a chargeback from there is not an option....

Ideas?
By the way they dont really use their site, even if i take their .net and .org's I don't think they will care too much....

The problem now is that after I opened the dispute they wont even talk to me...

Probably open another dispute and raise it again to paypal and say that they are scammers or?

Thank you guys!

Sorry for double-posting, but I just found that they have a website which they are using, the one I knew about is only used as a server to upload projects. However, I'm buying the .net and .org right now and will start working on this.

Any ideas if I should try again to raise another dispute using paypal?

I would definitely post their URL so that everyone can see who they are, and avoid them at all cost...They shouldn't be allowed to continue scamming without retribution...

Code:

srishtis dot com

here we go...

Edited... SORRY! Wrong reading on my part...

P.S.:

I see that there is a "blackmail" angle to it (the boss is blackmailing you and he forgets he also has a Inc. office in the US)! Find a US attorney immediately -- there are attorneys in US who fight your case (only if it has substantial substance in it) for free and then take a cut later (50%-60% or more) when the compensation is paid! lol

Talk (email) to their US company first. Give them details of how you're being blackmailed. They will consult their law department first and then stay quiet. Be persistent all the while but don't threaten. First copy their 'Contact Us' page to your HDD so that they don't change it later to show that there is no US company involved... The first thing they will change is their US related info from the site so copy all important pages to nail them as a US based company.

They have a US-based phone number on the site which makes it a US company with a possible Indian subsidiary which (possibly both) worked with you. You have a case to fight for.

Interesting story. I am also an Indian but I was also duped by an Indian guy on DP. I bought a wordpress blog from him for around $500 after seeing that the alexa rank around 70K. He mentioned in the sale that he made at least a couple dollars every day. That was a year ago and I trusted a bit till then though not much as I had seen alexa dancing irrelevant to the traffic for a couple of my sites. He was somewhat new to DP and after I bought I bought I realized that he has cheating openly and the website was pure BS. The website hardly had a few dozen visitors and was not even making cents a day. He must have inflated the alexa somehow but I was really pissed off. I asked him for a refund and to take back his website due to false promises but he refused to do so. Then I played mind games with him and I also applied for a refund from paypal on false promises. The mind game was pretty well planned and I gave him several points including vague ones how I will easily win the paypal case. He was somewhat new to websites and so finally he refunded around a hundred dollars or so less. I also told him that I will guide him on SEO so that he can become a genuine webmaster instead of a fraud and that also attracted him perhaps in doing that. So, mind games is also important. I stuck to my words however and taught him SEO techniques and now he is an established webmaster with my guidance. He still keeps on taking tips from me and whenever he has any problem regarding anything he asks me about it. He is reformed and that is also a good thing. Hope that you get your money back.

Everybody keep in mind.
Inidans are First Enemy for Indians. Freelancers to Politicians.

Ok guys, I haven't opened this thread for a while. I've noticed that they have a US company as well, but tought it wont work.

However, I bought their .net domain and already indexed it on spot #4 (a few backlinks were enough). Now I added another article and will blast some more links for this article.

My question now is: How to protect the .net domain in case they try to deindex it (mass shitty links, etc.)? I'm pretty sure that will be the first thing they will try to do after they realise what I've done.

Originally Posted by 2DHades

Ok guys, I haven't opened this thread for a while. I've noticed that they have a US company as well, but tought it wont work.

However, I bought their .net domain and already indexed it on spot #4 (a few backlinks were enough). Now I added another article and will blast some more links for this article.

My question now is: How to protect the .net domain in case they try to deindex it (mass shitty links, etc.)? I'm pretty sure that will be the first thing they will try to do after they realise what I've done.

I think that you've NOW unnecessarily opened up a chance for them to take legal action against you. You should have talked to their (their US office's) legal department first and tried to resolve the case.

After you've created a site with their own business name, and created those smoking posts, they will now turn the case to their legal department and turn a deaf ear to your subsequent efforts.

IMO, you should really have talked to their US office first, and many times if needed... Now can you defend yourself against a US company which can (may be) easily put up top legal teams against anyone in the world, esp after you've globally 'humiliated' them now, and IMO, illegally?

IMO again, now it is 101% sure that they will turn you to their legal department for defamation among other things... They will not communicate with you now, and only their legal department will do the screwing part.

Unless you are able to fight their legal approaches and win fast, I guess it's going to be extremely 'painful' for you.

Hey OP.. quite unfortunate to hear your case. After dealing with a lots of Indian 'SEO' expert companies that send emails with 'western' female names, i've pretty much stopped outsourcing my SEO stuff. Sticking to just BHW.

I don't think its worth your time to create .net/.org domains of these idiots. Since Paypal has refused to work in your favor, I suggest you do a bit more research and find out their phone number or if its difficult to find, start off as a fresh customer (preferably using a proxy so you hide your IP footprint as well) and tell them you have a big budget project, they'll fall for it.

Speak to them politely in terms of refunding your money back or tell them you will take legal action both in their US office as well as the city they are based in in India.

Also suggest you speak to Paypal again, explaining the situation that they (Paypal) are indirectly/associated in helping these idiots to scam others as well, Paypal wouldn't want to get involved in legal lawsuits, especially in India where its already difficult for them to operate.

If the company is legally registered in India, then they must be registered under STPI or some kind of company registrar, you could drop them an email as well.

Bottom line is, do your research and threaten these guys with the valid options you have, they will give in, eventually.

And an expensive lesson learnt. Hope you would repeat this mistake again!

i checked their address and it is in my state!
if you still need any assistance ,just msg me!

EDIT: just googled their company name and the .net(describing them as scam) is ranked 4th!

EDIT again: emailed him asking "why do u guys fucking spam ad spoil Indian IM's Reputation",and this was his reply!

We do web and mobile development.


We need to know why you send such a mail and who complained to you, we need to correct if we have did a mistake

Ok guys, really different opinions about lawsuits, etc.

The .net site is ranked #4 and that's true. Yet I haven't told them this, and I guess they don't know it yet (as for now).

To be honnest I'm not really scared from their legal department, if we can call it so..

Don't know really what to do next...

Originally Posted by TheSEOWizard

Interesting story. I am also an Indian but I was also duped by an Indian guy on DP. I bought a wordpress blog from him for around $500 after seeing that the alexa rank around 70K. He mentioned in the sale that he made at least a couple dollars every day. That was a year ago and I trusted a bit till then though not much as I had seen alexa dancing irrelevant to the traffic for a couple of my sites. He was somewhat new to DP and after I bought I bought I realized that he has cheating openly and the website was pure BS. The website hardly had a few dozen visitors and was not even making cents a day. He must have inflated the alexa somehow but I was really pissed off. I asked him for a refund and to take back his website due to false promises but he refused to do so. Then I played mind games with him and I also applied for a refund from paypal on false promises. The mind game was pretty well planned and I gave him several points including vague ones how I will easily win the paypal case. He was somewhat new to websites and so finally he refunded around a hundred dollars or so less. I also told him that I will guide him on SEO so that he can become a genuine webmaster instead of a fraud and that also attracted him perhaps in doing that. So, mind games is also important. I stuck to my words however and taught him SEO techniques and now he is an established webmaster with my guidance. He still keeps on taking tips from me and whenever he has any problem regarding anything he asks me about it. He is reformed and that is also a good thing. Hope that you get your money back.

See, this is the best way to teach a lesson. you are the man

You can chargeback - a dispute will be opened. Just hope you don't lose. Even if they have no money, if their account is verified paypal can take money from them like billing. Their account will go negative and they will have to fund it.

Looks like you lost that cash but it'll be a solid lesson for you so you don't fall into that mess again. Better luck next time but as I'm sure others have said it won't be possible to get your cash back.