The person I am talking about is :

http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackha...rtokealot.html

The Story :

The guy messages me some days back asking me about the Whole rundown on how to use Facebook vouchers to advertise!

I never gave it a reply, and ignored his PM as I do to many, which asks me "HOW TO USE IT" which they obvisouly want to get spoonfed instead of grasping it logically.

After a few days, the guy PMs me again, asking the price for 5 Facebook Vouchers! I replied him with the amount and also asked him to include the PP fees.

He paid me without the fees, and I refunded it, and he paid me again,the right amount!

I handed over the vouchers!

Next day, He PM me back asking, the accounts need a CC or PP to get it activated!

I said him, that the only way, and that is how it is!

He tells me that he wont have a way to use it, and hence need a refund!

Said him that, there is no refunds, after the coupons are handed over!!


Now the guy points to his first PM, and says that, He asked me all those at first, and since I didnt reply, it was my fault that he cant use it! (Thats what he meant!)

I replied him that, All such pms are usually ignored, and you should have read the sales pitch, which clearly stated all those!

He opened a Paypal Dispute, and Left me a negative Itrader.

The Itrader says :FAKE - FRAUD - SCAMMER - DO NOT BUY FROM THIS GUY
where I faked nothing, and didnt really scam any one!

It is the only 1 negative out of 40!!

So, I would like some mod look into it, and kick these people, who never read the things written, and juges the things themselves, and later complain about a delivered product!

I can sure disclose the conversations, if that is needed!


~ExP~

I think you speak about this thread:

Code:

http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/buy-sell-trade/246465-adwords-vouchers-50-75-100-50-75-100-50-75-100-facebook-50-paypal-only.html

And I see this on your Original first post:

Code:

Details about the vouchers are:
- Credit Card Required For Activation!

For me you are on your rights.
You have my supports.

Originally Posted by Sonat

I think you speak about this thread:

Code:

http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/buy-sell-trade/246465-adwords-vouchers-50-75-100-50-75-100-50-75-100-facebook-50-paypal-only.html

And I see this on your Original first post:

Code:

Details about the vouchers are:
- Credit Card Required For Activation!

For me you are on your rights.
You have my supports.

Exactly!

I forgot to include the thread link in the post!

Thanks for adding it up!

~ExP~

Ya, I already read the post in your sales thread. I will wait for his reply for one more day , before initiating any action.

Uh! Yet another moron trying to be a better moron.
Hope u can get the itrader thingy sorted out by BHW staff...its really hurting
to have negative itrader sometimes...hands down, I support u

Originally Posted by BigBuddy

Ya, I already read the post in your sales thread. I will wait for his reply for one more day , before initiating any action.

Thanks BB!!

In the end, If this ends with right in my end, I would like to get his 'Cry' and 'Itrader' worked on, since It was he who omitted reading the thread which did say all the things!

Thanks again BB!

~ExP~

Originally Posted by abhi1

Uh! Yet another moron trying to be a better moron.
Hope u can get the itrader thingy sorted out by BHW staff...its really hurting
to have negative itrader sometimes...hands down, I support u

Thanks for the support!

Time for people to read the rules, before buying something!

~ExP~

get a life, im within my rights to post what i posted.

Originally Posted by sirtokealot

get a life, im within my rights to post what i posted.

Uhh no you aren't. Posting a fake Itrader to defame a seller because you don't know what you're doing is against the rules and pretty dumb.

gb2 DP

Originally Posted by wargasm

Uhh no you aren't. Posting a fake Itrader to defame a seller because you don't know what you're doing is against the rules and pretty dumb.

gb2 DP

its not a fake itrader

extremephp - I am 100% behind you, but to save yourself you could simply create template answer and Q&A page for your service, otherwise you are asking yourself for more trouble, as ignoring PMs is not really best option mate

Just friendly thought.

BTW: contact admins about Itrader as it is nasty

what a tool. hope you get the itrader thing sorted out.

Sometimes you have to put the fine print in large bold font. Some people just don't get it. Good luck bro.

I am going to play devil's advocate and say your problem has its roots in this statement.

Originally Posted by extremephp

and ignored his PM as I do to many, which asks me "HOW TO USE IT" which they obvisouly want to get spoonfed instead of grasping it logically.

I have written quite a few guides as a technical writer and if your customers are giving you that feedback, then your content needs better explanation. In short, customer support levels are the barometer to your product. What might be obvious to you (because you can do it with yoru eyes closed) might be confusing to others, especially if you have explained it poorly.

Here is something you can try - at the start of the chapter (or whatever) give a summary (about a paragraph).

In this section we are going to ...

To complete this section you will need xxxx and yyyy before you get started. You will also set up zzzz in step 4 ...

Images are also fantastic as people learn from seeing (a picture is really worth a thousand words).

1 neg out of 40 = the problem is not with how the instructions were written.

I side with extremephp.

I think his username says a lot. From what I have seen it was pretty clear to me.

I hate people like this. On one of my sites, I ask people in bold letters to read my FAQ, and when they don't and start screaming scammer... It pisses me off.

Thanks for all the support guys!

The reason I dont really give an ABCD guide to people is, If I ask them to make multiple accounts to just run on the voucher money,(thats Blackhat) and if the accounts get shutdown(Yes, Some accounts may get caught), They would just come back and shout that It was me who said to do that, and I am the culprit and I should pay for it!



Anyways, to the guy, Stop fucking my Sales thread with your replies, and dare to keep all conversations here!

Lets shoot the shit just on the shitlist thread, and not in the sales thread

~ExP~

Well you put the most important prerequisite on the last line of your service description. It is best to warn potential buyers right away as it will save you a lot of headaches in the long run because it'll be weeding out the bad clients right from the start.

You could refund the guy as a gesture of goodwill just like wal-mart is doing it all the time with all the morons that refuse to read 2 straight sentences, because they know that good public opinion can be a very powerful thing.

Or you could fight that and show the guy who's his daddy, bh all the way

Originally Posted by extremephp

Anyways, to the guy, Stop fucking my Sales thread with your replies, and dare to keep all conversations here!

Lets shoot the shit just on the shitlist thread, and not in the sales thread

~ExP~

I am neither for or against you in this thread, you should have explained it better and he should have known better. But i can't see why he can't comment in your sales thread if he isn't happy with the service. A smarter man would have just gave him a refund and moved on

First of all the itrader that was left is misleading and insulting. You cannot imply or clearly say that someone has commited fraud because you failed to understand what you are buying. Heavy words were used...
I think the OP explained what the deal was about (in the thread) so he/she is not to blame.

I dont think though that it can somehow hurt your rep here so no worries, so you could just move on imo

at OP. I thought with PP there are no disputes while using MassPay? Can you clarify on that.

i no the feeling i got -1 itrader for refusing to
sell to some1 a year ago
hope u get a result
bad i traders ruin good sellers rep
its the principle

sirtokealot, you should have read the OP's sales thread before making the purchase. He clearly mentioned credit card require for activation.

If you have no idea, how to use facebook vouchers using vcc, you should not buy it.

Its your mistake. I am giving you one more day to close the dispute and settle this amicably.

If not, you will be banned for abusing the Itrader system..

Why not ban him now?

He´s an asshole anyway.. :-)

Originally Posted by RaveRandi

at OP. I thought with PP there are no disputes while using MassPay? Can you clarify on that.

It was just a normal payment! I do take in Normal payments atm!

Originally Posted by The Captain

I am neither for or against you in this thread, you should have explained it better and he should have known better. But i can't see why he can't comment in your sales thread if he isn't happy with the service. A smarter man would have just gave him a refund and moved on

Well, I wasnt offering any refunds, and hence I said him it isnt possible!

I hear that the other way could have been better!

Well, I said him there is no refunds, since I wasnt offering any refunds, once the codes are exchanged!

~ExP~

Originally Posted by The Captain

But i can't see why he can't comment in your sales thread if he isn't happy with the service.

Imagine you sell White Footballs!

He bought one from you, and later start complaining that the ball is not black!

And then goes on and put a board infront of your shop that you are unprofessional and is pulling out money for nothing!

How would you feel?

Same happened here!

~ExP~

Sounds like a situation of an honest business man getting screwed by a selfish non-TOS reading prick...

All you can do is just show them the door and just keep them happy enough to not come back. Just gotta show them that you are the bigger man and that they need your service, and you don't need their business. Belittling, yes, but keeps your head on straight and makes you feel better about yourself

All the threads I read about how helpful everyone is and yet here we have the majority of people wanting to cruxify this guy for not fully understanding something.

If we are to be helpful to each other then this is a bad example, and too wrongs dont make a right.

It was wrong to ignore PM then take his monies, some customer service would have been helpful and avoided this.

It was wrong to give negative itrader, should have asked if Moderator would assist with refund?

l do hope this is sorted in the best interests of all on the forum.

Originally Posted by alba56

All the threads I read about how helpful everyone is and yet here we have the majority of people wanting to cruxify this guy for not fully understanding something.

If we are to be helpful to each other then this is a bad example, and too wrongs dont make a right.

It was wrong to ignore PM then take his monies, some customer service would have been helpful and avoided this.

It was wrong to give negative itrader, should have asked if Moderator would assist with refund?

l do hope this is sorted in the best interests of all on the forum.

I think people here have issues with others that don't read the fine print. If anything else, what more can the seller do other than waste 30 minutes of his life, explaining the product to every person that comes by when the prospective customer could have studied and read it on his own and just avoid being turned down eventually when the seller realized that the buyer might be in over his head...

There is a level of personal accountability and responsibility. The buyer lacked it. He pays for it. The seller was offering a service he explained enough. The buyer didn't think the sellers time isn't good enough to understand what was exactly being offered.

I'd be irate if I was the seller too. Luckily you can reel some products in, some you can't. What can one do then? Not much I think.

extremephp,

You've been arrogant from the start. If you don't answer pms from this forum, then why are you a member and selling here?

Your defense is your fine print! Why don't you respond to your pms.

I find you extremephp "extremely" arrogant.

EXTREME PHP.. I am not trying to tell you how to run your business but I think the smarter thing to do was to give him his money back... I think you dirtied your business and lowered your sales just ranting and making this thread.

I was thinking of buying some vouchers from you... but since i DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE THEM...and you already made it clear that you are not in the biz of explaining what exactly you are selling or how to use them(to us idiots with money).... i will pass on those vouchers. Because... i might be wrong... but it seems like the minute you explain what those vouchers are really good for... the sale might not go thru....

Even if he gets banned.... it does not mean he will stay away...

good luck with resolving your problem...

I don't think OP did any wrong in not answering PM, as that is not what he started the thread for. I had a few PM exchanged with him regarding his services and he has been forthright in his replies. But if every noob starts messaging him with questions such as "how to use voucher codes", then that's all he would have time for.

The other guy flaming him don't even know how to use the vouchers, it seems like he was looking to make some quick bucks by using the vouchers as magic wands, which wasn't to be.

OP didn't do anything wrong I agree, even if he didn't answer PM, I get many of those spoondfeeding request PMs daily, just ignoring them, they don't bother to do something themselves.

I believe extremephp is right supporting him

well if he does not answer PM... why is he writing this on his sales page

"For Any Queries, Drop Me a PM "

keyword being "ANY"....

maybe he should rephrase it with.. "I reserve the right not to answer PM from idiots that don't know how to use my vouchers and that will just frustrate the sh!t out of me... and end up not buying cr@p anyways... but all other PMs gladly answered. "

Maybe someone should write a step by step guide on how to deal with your so called "noobs" that you insult and be kind to them...the very people that brings you revenue in what you sell here.

Originally Posted by UltimateSEO

Maybe someone should write a step by step guide on how to use the vouchers then when noobs pm asking to be spoon fed you can just direct them to that link where they can read and then make their own decisions then in VERY HUGE font say that there are no refunds and opening multiple accounts may get you banned and still NO refunds....etc

Irrespective of the semantics - the op was termed:

'Fake, Scammer, Fraud' which is 100% not the case.

Just because you buy something and dont know how to use it, or read the details relating to it use - does not imply that the seller must coach you in its use.

The OP will almost certainly loose both the vouchers and the paypal dispute as a result of this 'customer'.

I have removed the neg itrader, and issued an infraction to the buyer. Bigbuddy, please feel free to ban this member if/when he fails to comply with your requests.

Originally Posted by beaglejuice

extremephp,

You've been arrogant from the start. If you don't answer pms from this forum, then why are you a member and selling here?

Your defense is your fine print! Why don't you respond to your pms.

I find you extremephp "extremely" arrogant.

Wow! I dont have to be arrogant to anyone, without a reason!!

Being a Member here doesnt mean that I have to reply to each and every PM I get!

So, Pofecker is not a Member here? Is he responding to each and every PM that people sent him??

He ignores the low priority ones, reads the better ones, and responds to selected ones!

Basically, I dont find a problem dealing with Newbies! But these are noobs, who just want to get spoon fed!!

~ExP~

Originally Posted by Virus1

well if he does not answer PM... why is he writing this on his sales page

"For Any Queries, Drop Me a PM "

keyword being "ANY"....

maybe he should rephrase it with.. "I reserve the right not to answer PM from idiots that don't know how to use my vouchers and that will just frustrate the sh!t out of me... and end up not buying cr@p anyways... but all other PMs gladly answered. "

Dude, that doesnt make any sense!!

I have all the things written in my sales thread, and I dont find a reason to explain them from the start to end to make a dollar or 2!!

If you are still stressing on the word 'Any' , I should better make a thread saying I have something to sell, and Keep everything in PM! Lol! Jk!

~ExP~

Originally Posted by zen19

Irrespective of the semantics - the op was termed:

'Fake, Scammer, Fraud' which is 100% not the case.

Just because you buy something and dont know how to use it, or read the details relating to it use - does not imply that the seller must coach you in its use.

The OP will almost certainly loose both the vouchers and the paypal dispute as a result of this 'customer'.

I have removed the neg itrader, and issued an infraction to the buyer. Bigbuddy, please feel free to ban this member if/when he fails to comply with your requests.

Thanks for removing the negative Itrader Zen19!!

You did it even without asking it to you! Thanks for the action! yes, timely action!

And about what I loose, I wont really loose the money, because I still think I can win the Dispute

It isnt a Chargeback

~ExP~

Well said, beaglejuice and Virus1.

Originally Posted by extremephp

Wow! I dont have to be arrogant to anyone, without a reason!!

Being a Member here doesnt mean that I have to reply to each and every PM I get!

So, Pofecker is not a Member here? Is he responding to each and every PM that people sent him??

He ignores the low priority ones, reads the better ones, and responds to selected ones!

Basically, I dont find a problem dealing with Newbies! But these are noobs, who just want to get spoon fed!!

~ExP~

You can't really compare yourself to an admin, so that's not a very good example, especially when you have sales threads running.

You will always get "annoying" customers, that is the nature of selling on the web or offline. Ignoring PMs with questions isn't really going to benefit you and can lead to situations like this. It's really in your best interests that a customer knows how to use your product effectively, as potentially they could become repeat customers. Asking how to best use a product isn't "spoon-feeding", not everyone knows the Adwords/Facebook system inside out. I would probably ask you the same questions, yet I'm sure you wouldn't dismiss me as a "noob". Don't let post count/rep/rank deceive you - some of your best clients will come from people completely new to the forum or IM.

I feel you on the fake itrader, but perhaps this is something you could have brought up with a mod privately.

As some of the other helpful members have mentioned, write up an in-depth FAQ or tutorial to point people to. It will take you 10 seconds to PM them back.

Also, please stop capitalising every other word, it looks ridiculous lol.

So, Pofecker is not a Member here? Is he responding to each and every PM that people sent him??

extremephp, are you mod? whether pofeck informed you that he will be replying to only selected ones?

Don't compare yourself with admin of BHW.

Hereafter, instead spending time for opening the shitlist thread like this, spend some time for replying to PM's,.

Anyway, extremephP mentioned that he will be winning the dispute, So i no need to wait for sirtokealot reply. He was online today, but not bothered to reply in this thread.

Banning sirtokealot for 3 Months - Abusing Itrader system, Wrongly Raised the dispute, I assume his intention is not scamming and only lack of knowledge.

Bigbuddy and Meathead1234

Thanks for the input guys! I wasnt really comparing myself to any staffs or anyone else!

I was just replying to someone post, which said being a MEMBER here, I should reply to all PMs!

Just was talking about that! Nothing else!



Thanks both!

~ExP~

I rest my case. So much to be admired to the people who have sold in this forum and responded with dignity to their customers no matter how noob, ignorant, or crazy they are.