Hi BHW,

I have a client from UK..a couple of months back i created some link wheels to 5 keywords of his site..Now 4 keywords are on the first page of g00gle (UK) rankings from 2 to 5 ..I charged $200 for this work!

Now, He wants to achieve rank #1 for all the keywords...So i did a thorough competition research...3 keywords are easier to achieve rank#1 but the other two are pretty competitive. So i explained the situation and quoted him two payment options for a span of three months

1. Setup $150 and every month $200 --> Total $750

OR

2. Upfront $500 and $200 after achieving rank#1 for 4 keywords...

I did not get any response from him...it's been one day since i sent the quote
Normally he would reply in a day at most...

Could someone please advice regarding the prices i set and what should i do...

Now I'm feeling bad about the price i set...thinking i should've quoted less! What do you guys think?

Thanks BHW...

P.S.Though i joined BHW long before...i started reading wonderful threads here just a couple of months...I should've started reading much earlier

P.S. This is my first time creating a thread in BHW ...Let me know if i did anything wrong!

Wait for another day and then contact him again and get his feedback on the quote.

Why are you guaranteeing anything?

Be confident in your quotes. He needs you more than you need him.

You're going to bring him business, so if he doesn't want to value your services properly, then someone else will!

Originally Posted by Dannn

Be confident in your quotes. He needs you more than you need him.

You're going to bring him business, so if he doesn't want to value your services properly, then someone else will!

I second that. If a business owner wants to screw himself because he can't check is own ego, then move on to his competitors.

Don't give them options and don't bill for results. You as an SEO consultant are billing your time. Do you pay a lawyer only if you win (sometimes if they are crap) but any good lawyer is paid for their time.

Give a solid quote, be confident in it and write it up officially (even paypals quote tool is ok).

Send them the quote, give them a week and follow up with a phone call. If they are interested you can close the deal - if they aren't interested move on. Don't chase a client and don't sacrifice your prices to try and win their bid - your ultimate goal is to brand yourself as a product worth the cost.

My thoughts are your quote was waaayyyy too low! He is probably in contact with someone else and waiting for a quote for comparison. Msotly like he will get a higher quote from the other party and come runnig back to you.

Personally i do not take on any clients with a budget below $1k a month.

Setup $150 and every month $200 --> Total $750
And dont make any Guarantee!

Originally Posted by bestmate

My thoughts are your quote was waaayyyy too low! He is probably in contact with someone else and waiting for a quote for comparison. Msotly like he will get a higher quote from the other party and come runnig back to you.

Personally i do not take on any clients with a budget below $1k a month.

Running back? I doubt it; if you quote well below the average of all the other quotes I would question as to why yours was so low - what corners are you cutting to get these prices? What better services do the others provide. Many of us SEO folks are frugal with backlink price and web design price etc because it is simple point to point products and we know we can get them cheap and decent over seas. In offline marketing you are a service and price plays part in perception.

Agree, this is a very low quote.
Yet, the problem in your client might be somewhere different.

I would go and get more traffic -> clients
So that you have more chances.

Sometimes I also refuse clients, you pic only the most worth.
This puts you in a better position.

Originally Posted by Winchester

Running back? I doubt it; if you quote well below the average of all the other quotes I would question as to why yours was so low - what corners are you cutting to get these prices? What better services do the others provide. Many of us SEO folks are frugal with backlink price and web design price etc because it is simple point to point products and we know we can get them cheap and decent over seas. In offline marketing you are a service and price plays part in perception.

Yeah right !!

It is very difficult to squeeze a penny out of most small business owners and they almost always gravitate toward the lowest price , even though they should know better.

Originally Posted by mrpickles

Yeah right !!

It is very difficult to squeeze a penny out of most small business owners and they almost always gravitate toward the lowest price , even though they should know better.

Then you're targeting the wrong people; not clients you want to build a client relationship with. If you aren't able to sell your product at a higher price it's your selling that's wrong not your price.

This is the thread for you: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackha...les-guide.html

I think your quote is ok but I would argue that guaranties are not the way to go. And the price should depend on the competition because this determines the amount of work you have to do.

I am not a believer in linkwheels. If one property goes down it has a major impact on all the other properties. You can achieve great results in a short time but there is no longevity in the SERPs. Also, most linkwheel builders have no idea of how to hide their footprints (not directed at you).

So, IMHO linkwheels are an inferior service. I don't mean to attack you here. I just want to point out what I believe from my experience working with them and owning my own Linkwheel service. Your client may be looking for a different service to diversify his link building. He may be doing some research on linkwheels to see how they effect the SERPs in the long run.

You could follow up with your potential client with a bonus time limited offer.

Many would-be SEO clients have no idea of what is required nowadays to rank high in the SERPs. Many will look for people (not mentioning any country!) who guarantee #1 position in the SERPs with their crappy links. In general people are greedy and are attracted to this nonsense.

Your potential client is looking for a cheap way to rank well. Like others on the is thread I agree that you should not spend lots of time on this guy. Give him a bonus offer to accept within 5 days. If they don't jump on it, then move on. Usually these kind of clients are not good to work with either.

Originally Posted by Winchester

Then you're targeting the wrong people; not clients you want to build a client relationship with. If you aren't able to sell your product at a higher price it's your selling that's wrong not your price.

This is the thread for you: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackha...les-guide.html

I read your article on the thread above. I agree with most of that article accept the part where you say "I love to fail." For me, I don't like to fail but I am "not afraid of failure." I have been doing all kinds of research now for over 20 years. You have to know what does not work just as much as you need to know what does work.

Also, I like what your say about pricing for your service. Many of my potential clients ask me how much I charge for an hour of work. I tell them that they are paying for my experience and knowledge and that I do not work on an hourly rate. I outline my service and give them a price. If they don't want to pay me for my 10+ years of SEO experience then fine.

The key of course is to research their competition and do a keyword analysis before giving them a quote.

Thank you very much for all your informative responses!

Actually i contacted him again after 2days from my first quote! Explaining everything about their competitors and their link structures, time needed etc. kind of justifying my quote! For which he replied saying that he has 8 e-commerce sites to be optimized and wants me to reconsider my price!!

So i gave him two options like

1. I'll implement this Link Building strategy for each of the keywords at a fixed price...that's it! I cannot guarantee any rankings..no support! nothing!

2. If you want to me to guarantee rankings then pay me per month basis! and i'll keep working until each keyword gets ranked...

I know, No true seo consultant guarantees Rankings! But i had to since this client is half knowledged in SEO and wants Results to be done at cheap prices...

I understood that i should leave this client asap and move on to better clients who value my time and knowledge....We shouldn't be DESPERATE with clients like this...

Thank you all again..

Mohan, remember, it's all a learning experience, even when you are successful.

Originally Posted by mrpickles

Yeah right !!

It is very difficult to squeeze a penny out of most small business owners and they almost always gravitate toward the lowest price , even though they should know better.

Not true at all, offline business will pay good money, regardless of what they do. You're not selling the client on the price, you're selling him on how it's going to benefit them. Sticking with SEO, if a keyword gets 4,000 searches a month, and he's not ranked on the first page, then you simply tell them, "I'll/We'll be working on bringing your site's authority up in the eyes of Google, you being a smart business owner, know that, more traffic means more customers, the top position on Google gets 43% percent (or whatever stat you find) of the clicks, so that's 1,720 new visitors that can potentially convert into paying customers".

I've even been able to squeeze out more money from clients who said their budget is $750 dollars , by showing them while it'll be more beneficial in the long run to go the Y route for $1000 dollars. He said he had a budget, but I made him see how in the end a couple more bucks upfront would be better in the long run. And this isn't just a one time occurrence, I can almost ALWAYS get my customers to pay more than what they think they want to, but you also have to bring something more to the table for the higher price.

Originally Posted by mohan1218

Thank you very much for all your informative responses!

Actually i contacted him again after 2days from my first quote! Explaining everything about their competitors and their link structures, time needed etc. kind of justifying my quote! For which he replied saying that he has 8 e-commerce sites to be optimized and wants me to reconsider my price!!

So i gave him two options like

1. I'll implement this Link Building strategy for each of the keywords at a fixed price...that's it! I cannot guarantee any rankings..no support! nothing!

2. If you want to me to guarantee rankings then pay me per month basis! and i'll keep working until each keyword gets ranked...

I know, No true seo consultant guarantees Rankings! But i had to since this client is half knowledged in SEO and wants Results to be done at cheap prices...

I understood that i should leave this client asap and move on to better clients who value my time and knowledge....We shouldn't be DESPERATE with clients like this...

Thank you all again..

You have to start somewhere, and if you don't have the luxury of being able to pick and choose your clients yet, sometimes you get stuck with bad apples.

Next time though, throw out guarantee, you're not really guaranteeing anything, you're just saying they'll keep paying you $XXX a month in order to get to number one. So, just say "I can do a one time optimization for $XXX amount for this keyword, $YYY for this keyword, etc. Or I can do all 4 keywords for $ZZZZ each month until we get number one, and then we'll bump it down to our retainer price of $AAA a month because you'll still want to keep building your site's trust so competitors can't come back and take over. Now, these keywords get a combined X,XXX searches a month, and it's said the first link gets 43% of the clicks so you're looking at potentially Z,ZZZ more views per month and being a successful businessman like yourself, you know the more views you get the more customers you'll end up getting, right?" And of course he'll say yes he's a smart business man and he knows that simple logic.

Regardless if your client thinks he knows the up-and-up on your particular service, he has other things to take care of, or he wouldn't have even listened to your first proposal.

Originally Posted by imprint

Not true at all, offline business will pay good money, regardless of what they do. You're not selling the client on the price, you're selling him on how it's going to benefit them. Sticking with SEO, if a keyword gets 4,000 searches a month, and he's not ranked on the first page, then you simply tell them, "I'll/We'll be working on bringing your site's authority up in the eyes of Google, you being a smart business...

My issue, is that I've had two potential clients call me back, both of which happened to be lawyers, both of which who listened to me talk about my services for a good 25 minutes and were seemingly very interested throughout the conversation, however at the end when they asked my prices, and I told them, they say "well, I already have enough business as it is" and ultimately "aren't interested" but thank me for bringing their negative issues to their attention. I'm in the ORM field and my prices are a modest $300 to $800 per month depending on what they need. I can't understand how they can say that they have "too much business" and pass on a service that can help them. Both lawyers wasted my time only to say "eeh I don't think I'm interested and I have too much business anyway".. Ugh.

Originally Posted by Tvision10

My issue, is that I've had two potential clients call me back, both of which happened to be lawyers, both of which who listened to me talk about my services for a good 25 minutes and were seemingly very interested throughout the conversation, however at the end when they asked my prices, and I told them, they say "well, I already have enough business as it is" and ultimately "aren't interested" but thank me for bringing their negative issues to their attention. I'm in the ORM field and my prices are a modest $300 to $800 per month depending on what they need. I can't understand how they can say that they have "too much business" and pass on a service that can help them. Both lawyers wasted my time only to say "eeh I don't think I'm interested and I have too much business anyway".. Ugh.

Well, I've never had a client say they had too much business, and I tend to stay away from Lawyers just because...well we all know the stereotypical lawyer , not saying it's a bad niche to go after, I've just never have.

But, when talking to your prospect, remember to talk less and listen more. You're doing ORM, so once you get your greetings / introductions out of the way, I'd go along something like:

Now, Mr. Lawyer, you understand the importance of having a good, positive brand, right?", he'll say "Yes", follow up with "Of course you do, now that's what I'm here to help you with, I've shown you the negative reviews that people are using to tarnish your good name, but before we go farther into how I can assist you, I want to get to know you more, see if we'd be a good fit for each other...."

This is where they should do the majority of the talking, over the phone you should be taking notes, ask about why / when they started, how is business right now, could they use more clients (Those two questions right there eliminate the problem you mentioned), any other questions you can think that'll help you close them and or provide a better service to them. Then you bring them back to the negative reviews, say somthing to tie the two together:

So, you've been in business for 25 years! So, I don't need to tell you that marketing and getting clients has changed a lot! I mean take a peek at the Google Reviews that I sent you, that's the new 'Word of Mouth' but now they can reach 40 million people with a single button click. Like Jean (Whatever reviewers name is) here said that you were 'a nightmare to deal with, lost an easy case and still made me pay 5,000 dollars to him, worst lawyer in Miami', I mean that's some pretty damaging stuff, wouldn't you agree?

Now, with that he'll either say yes and/or defend himself.

So, respond along the lines.

Well, some people just can't see that you did your best and the case was a lost-cause (Just reiterate what he said, if you feel he is a good lawyer and did all he can, make sure he knows you're on his side, if he seems like someone who just wants to take the money and is in fact an asshole of a lawyer, then you won't want this client in the end). But your future clients aren't going to see your side of the story, so you agree that they'll start looking for a different lawyer (Always ask questions that gets a YES)? Well, thats where I can help you, I'll help get your review pages positive reviews, and all the negative feedback will be delivered to your email address so can get some feedback on your service.

Also, read off all the negative reviews, they'll most likely defend their self, and that's fine we just want to drive the hurt home.

Another thing, don't sell on the cost (And it shouldn't be a cost, it's an investment) like "It's $XXX, BUT we're $YYY cheaper than our competitor). Sell on,

you have Z,ZZZ people searching for 'Lawyer your town', that means they can see these negative reviews, so we'll setup a funnel system that'll weed out the negative reviews for $XXX a month and get your positive reviews showing up, and say that brings you one new client a month, that's $W,WWW in your pocket! Would you like to make $W,WWW for investing $XXX into your business? (Of course they would)

Hint: You'll know how much it'll bring them (The $W,WWW) stat because you've asked what their customer lifetime value is worth during your business questions.

That turned out to be a lot more than what I was wanting to reply to you with , but the short response is that you could have funneled those two out by asking more about their business instead of doing most the talking, if you get your clients to do the majority of the talking, and then when you do your talking, get them to answer with yes, they've pretty much sold their self on it.

Originally Posted by imprint

Well, I've never had a client say they had too much business, and I tend to stay away from Lawyers just because...well we all know the stereotypical lawyer...

Well I appreciate your detailed answer. I also tend to stay away from lawyers, but these two had some significantly bad press that was sure to seal the deal, yet they did the exact opposite. I don't know how you can have too much business, but again I should have established that in the beginning. I felt that when they heard my prices, they almost automatically shifted to "well, I have too many clients anyway.. blah..blah..excuses.." I figured maybe it's just that lawyer ego that clouded there vision in seeing a truly helpful service.. Well that, and thinking my prices were "too high or not worth it" in their minds..

Aside from lawyers, I'm wondering what the overall "dream sheet" of businesses I could target with better success would be. I've had great success with hotels, motels and doctors. Do you have an opinion as to a good niche list to target? What's good and what's worth staying away from?

Thanks again

Originally Posted by Tvision10

Well I appreciate your detailed answer. I also tend to stay away from lawyers, but these two had some significantly bad press that was sure to seal the deal, yet they did the exact opposite. I don't know how you can have too much business, but again I should have established that in the beginning. I felt that when they heard my prices, they almost automatically shifted to "well, I have too many clients anyway.. blah..blah..excuses.." I figured maybe it's just that lawyer ego that clouded there vision in seeing a truly helpful service.. Well that, and thinking my prices were "too high or not worth it" in their minds..

Aside from lawyers, I'm wondering what the overall "dream sheet" of businesses I could target with better success would be. I've had great success with hotels, motels and doctors. Do you have an opinion as to a good niche list to target? What's good and what's worth staying away from?

Thanks again

I don't want to keep hijacking this guys thread to answer your question, but it looks like you already have a dream sheet, if you're having success with hotels, motels and doctors, don't go looking for greener pastures until yours turn brown.

Plus, if one were to list their dream sheet, everyone and their little 3rd cousin Cindy will be doing that same list by tomorrow...

We all go through this one. Time to toughen up and realise that what will be will be. Stand firm and they'll come running back, buckle in and they'll loose respect. Plenty more clients out there who are experienced enough to know that good rankings are worth paying for!