Hi,
So a client called me out for charging her for a service that she could have received for a lower price. I'm playing the middleman and she snooped around to find out where some of the "features" of my service came from. She threatened to out me in public, newspapers, twitter, etc.

I've explained to her that managing these things takes time and must be "optimized" for search engines. She has no idea what SEO, etc. is, but she insists that she could do it. I offered her half of her money back, and access to the paid SEO services. I'm waiting for a reply to that, and if she accepts, I'm handing over everything that she knows about. The stuff that she didn't find will be taken down, so it doesn't help her.
(*I'm not going to mention the service name)

I was also thinking of doing a little negative rep lashback (as a client of her business), but nothing too drastic that will take up my precious time. Just enough to convince her that she needs me.

Do you think this is the right way to go about it, and what BS have you come across with your clients?

Simple solution: Fire her.

But first, educate her a bit.

1. Let her know she's making a huge mistake buying based solely on price. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Plain and simple.

2. If she's not prepared to pay your service fees then she is clearly not serious about getting more business and more clients.

3. Your service is not a commodity. If she wants it "her way" and wants to order off the menu on the wall, tell her to go to Burger King. If she wants your expertise it comes at a premium.

4. Any douchebag with a Warrior Forum account and a JC Penny suit can call themselves a "consultant", but what do they really bring to the table? Some half assed knowledge they read in some $7 pdf that's been rehashed a dozen times? Give me a break. Im so tired of seeing these clowns running around and price-whoring each other out of existence.


She threatened to out your in newspapers + twitter??? OH NO!! (lol) Some twat who wants to save a few bucks by threatening you is not someone you should be interested in doing business with in the first place.

My suggestion? Cut her loose for good and let her know that negative press is a two way street. Stand your ground but don't stoop to her level. Replace her with 2 clients who appreciate what you do and don't look back.

It sounds to me as though you are doing what virtually every business in the world does. Or am I missing something?

Originally Posted by 7878

Simple solution: Fire her.

But first, educate her a bit.

1. Let her know she's making a huge mistake buying based solely on price. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Plain and simple.

2. If she's not prepared to pay your service fees then she is clearly not serious about getting more business and more clients.

3. Your service is not a commodity. If she wants it "her way" and wants to order off the menu on the wall, tell her to go to Burger King. If she wants your expertise it comes at a premium.

4. Any douchebag with a Warrior Forum account and a JC Penny suit can call themselves a "consultant", but what do they really bring to the table? Some half assed knowledge they read in some $7 pdf that's been rehashed a dozen times? Give me a break. Im so tired of seeing these clowns running around and price-whoring each other out of existence.


She threatened to out your in newspapers + twitter??? OH NO!! (lol) Some twat who wants to save a few bucks by threatening you is not someone you should be interested in doing business with in the first place.

My suggestion? Cut her loose for good and let her know that negative press is a two way street. Stand your ground but don't stoop to her level. Replace her with 2 clients who appreciate what you do and don't look back.

This is exactly the correct play.

People don't understand that there is so much more to services and products than just price.

Every business has some sort of a middleman, tell her to do one!

Some people try to get all they can, she is playing the game

pissing matches is never a good thing.

tell her she can do whatever she wants with her money, but when the search engines change and its no longer effective it will cost her 10x what it does now to get your knowledge then.

what kind of business is she in? tell her you will go to twitter and stuff and report her mark-ups and profits. can't stand people like that. i get people like that in my lot that like to tell me how much i paid for cars. i tell them "go to the auction" then. what the hell do people think drives the economy?

My lawyer and I are quite close. I have a default letter the handles 99% of the people like this. Have one typed up saying you will sue for blah blah blah and you are seeking legal actions, etc etc. Whenever someone like this comes along, make a few changes to it and send it to them accordingly.

Works great. Especially for getting negative marks removed.

Many moons ago, when I was a young kid, our TV went on the blink.

We paid someone to come out and fix it. The call out charge was not cheap.

The "engineer" took one look at the TV, and literally banged it on the side.

The TV worked fine after that.

My father was not best pleased at having to pay what was quite a lot of money for someone to come out and smack the TV, and he made his feelings known to the "engineer" at the time.

The engineer's reply was this:

"Hitting the TV took seconds. Learning where to hit it, and how hard, took years."

Something along those lines anyway - I was young, but the story stuck.

The point of telling you that is this:

The price is only ever a part of the picture. So what if you outsource it, and pay much less than they would if they went direct. The point is that they're paying for your experience in knowing what needs doing and making an informed decision about who would be best carrying out that work/job.

Experience and expertise should never be reduced to a commodity, so if all she thinks she's paying for is the physical actions being carried out by the people you're farming the work out to, then you need to educate her about why your experience/expertise means you know where to hit the TV and how hard.

Cheers

RN

Originally Posted by 7878

Simple solution: Fire her.

She threatened to out your in newspapers + twitter??? OH NO!! (lol) Some twat who wants to save a few bucks by threatening you is not someone you should be interested in doing business with in the first place.

Clients like this I usually tell them to F off and just ignore them afterward. The reason I'm concerned about her is that she is one of those influential/flirty types. She'll lead everyone on just to get her way, and since she's in mostly a male field, she has every guy drooling after her.

I'm trying to break into the area and there are a few potential clients that I'm negotiating with, so I don't want her loud mouth scaring away the leads.

Originally Posted by Kickflip

I usually over react when people threaten me like that, and I destroy their entire company and then they threaten to sue me and I go haha I don't have any assets go for it... but that might not work for you.

I would recommend just trying to explain again, I am a manager, I have to get paid for the time I spend procuring services for you. We agreed on a price for certain services. Of course I am able to get it for a lower price, that is how I make money.You can buy a pair of jeans fresh out of the factory for 10 Yuan + $7.00 for shipping if you know the right people, but you don't, so you need to go through Sears and pay $50.00. I am not running a charity here, I have a family to feed and I need to make a profit also.

I over react as well, so I'm trying my best to bite my tongue even if it bleeds(figuratively).

I'm going to use that example in a letter to her if you don't mind.

Originally Posted by angelas111

what kind of business is she in? tell her you will go to twitter and stuff and report her mark-ups and profits. can't stand people like that. i get people like that in my lot that like to tell me how much i paid for cars. i tell them "go to the auction" then. what the hell do people think drives the economy?

It's so tempting to just tell her to go screw herself on twitter, etc., but that will make me look bad. If you are a business owner, and you see a marketing manager talk crap about a client because of a disagreement, would you want to be associated with that? Even if the marketer is in the right, the public does not always know the exact details, so everyone loses.

Originally Posted by onthegoaudio1

My lawyer and I are quite close. I have a default letter the handles 99% of the people like this. Have one typed up saying you will sue for blah blah blah and you are seeking legal actions, etc etc. Whenever someone like this comes along, make a few changes to it and send it to them accordingly.

Works great. Especially for getting negative marks removed.

That's a great idea.

Ok, I was going to hand write it, but it's not worth my time, nor my respect.

Dear xxx,
It is unfortunate that we have arrived at such a dismal situation. We came to you offering our internet marketing expertise in hopes of augmenting your brand and your name; however it appears to us that you see it from a different perspective. Through years of primary and secondary research we have offered to put our collection of knowledge and resources together to bring you more sales. Our records show that there has been an increase in traffic to your website <http://....>, since we started working with you. Please see figure 1 to 5 for full details.

We are also very displeased to receive such an unprofessional response from such a reputable owner. Please refer to our website again <http://…> for complete details of our mission. For your convenience we have attached it to this document. See page 2 of the attachments. Our goals are clear and we have delivered as promised thus far. Please note, that we will take all of the necessary steps to protect our name and brand, since we do specialize in online marketing.

You have paid for our time and knowledge, and we employ other services that we feel are a small but necessary part of the process to bring you more sales. Let me ask you this. If you could buy new jeans for $7.00 + S&H, right out of the factory would you? Of course not, you want to try them on, touch them, and see them in person first. Someone has taken the time to measure, sort, transport, and hang them in a public location so that you can get the right size and look that you desire. Then you end up paying $50 for them at the store. We do the sorting and transporting for you in our situation, so if you would like do this yourself, we will hand over everything that has your name and brand on it, but nothing more. See the 3rd page of the attachments.

xxx has offered you half of your money back for the services that we have provided thus far, as a sign of respect and honor. This is not within the contract that you have signed, but since we have not completed the full term of our agreement, I will not detest his response. Consider this as a notice of contract termination as well.



xxx
CEO




xxx
Representative




xxx
Lawyer

The passive aggressive approach? What do you think?

BTW, it's just me running things, with some assistance from my Lawyer. I'm just doing the whole look of a big company with the care of a small company.

Look it's very simple.

You prices are your prices, if she isn't happy because she found fivver or whatever, tell her she is welcome to take her custom elsewhere. Tell her that you know what you're doing and she pays for your expertise, if she feels she isn't getting a good deal then of course she is free to go elsewhere, but you're won't be there to help pick up the pieces when some clueless monkey fucks up the delicate job that is SEO/SMO/PPC and gets her site banned or buried in the SERPS.

You shouldn't have offered her any money back. In my opinion you should never show that kind of weakness to a client unless you really fucked something up and have to admit that you did. I certainly wouldn't have offered her shit in your situation.

Originally Posted by Talsin

You shouldn't have offered her any money back. In my opinion you should never show that kind of weakness to a client unless you really fucked something up and have to admit that you did. I certainly wouldn't have offered her shit in your situation.

Honestly, if she asks for all of her money back, I'd give it to her if she shuts up and goes away. I'm in college, and I would definitely escalate and take this to court for some free press if I had the time.

...please don't start bashing college and it's uselessness. Some aspects I find necessary for my personal growth and development that others may not need.

Thanks

Damn.. she's a woman so I guess finding her and beating her into silence won't work :/

Originally Posted by imperial109

Hi,
I offered her half of her money back, and access to the paid SEO services. I'm waiting for a reply to that, and if she accepts, I'm handing over everything that she knows about.

You don't reply to this type of questions by devaluing your service. You do it by showing the value of your service.

I would suggest somethings along the line of -

Some of the services I use to market your business are cheaper through some sources. Some are even free. But the important thing to understand is a lot of items are simply tools. It is not the tool that creates the final product, it is the skill in using that tool etc etc

Or you could take the ... think of the skills it takes to operate in your own market line ...

Think of your own business. How much skill does it take to compete in your profession? I think we would both agree that someone with little experience or your skills could just start up overnight and offer the same level of service you do. How often do you see shady operators that undercut business but give your industry a bad name? How do those people make you feel and would you be comfortable referring them to a good friend?

If you devalue your service, then you are basically saying, yep ... I ripped you off.

Originally Posted by imperial109

Honestly, if she asks for all of her money back, I'd give it to her if she shuts up and goes away. I'm in college, and I would definitely escalate and take this to court for some free press if I had the time.

...please don't start bashing college and it's uselessness. Some aspects I find necessary for my personal growth and development that others may not need.

Thanks

That's fair enough. Only you know what your time is worth and how much stress you are willing to take on to keep your clients happy. If she crosses the line into being a nuisance to you then it is best to just walk away, especially if you are at college and have plenty of other things to be getting on with. There is such a thing as bad clients, don't let it bother you on a personal level as there are always more fish in the sea.

Does she go to a resturant and bitch cuz she can cook a meal herself? Some people are just not worth the hassle. I would do what was advised above and no way would I give her a refund. Send her packing and let her know if she tries to hurt your business you will settle it in court.

What ever you do do it methodically and unemotionally. If you can provoke her into acting like a hysterical female while you remain the rational male (assuming you are a dude) so much the better particularly if you can do so in front of witnesses. I'm not saying that the stereotype is correct but she sounds like she might play into that trap.

Originally Posted by moneyfreedom

Damn.. she's a woman so I guess finding her and beating her into silence won't work :/

That doesn't mean you cant pay another woman too.. I bet you can find one on CL too. lol

Great thread with some awesome advice.

People like this who don't understand the fundamentals of capitalism really irk me. I like the tool idea mentioned a few posts ago. I mean, you could go to the store and get hair color for $5 and do a sloppy job at home, but you usually go to a salon where they probably bought some nicer color at $10 and are charging you $100 for the service.

Originally Posted by MasterGodfather

Great thread with some awesome advice.

You now have 15 posts.

If she is this:
"The reason I'm concerned about her is that she is one of those influential/flirty types. She'll lead everyone on just to get her way, and since she's in mostly a male field, she has every guy drooling after her."

then you cannot just tell her to fuk off...
these are the best clients.

Tell her if she feels that you overcharged her...then to tell you what she thinks is fair.
Do the work for her even if its for free....
then tell her you will continue a certain amount of work for free if she sends you clients...

yes these flirty types can make guys to anything....

watch your business grow due to her sweet talking all those guys to sign up with you so she can get the free services....


Good Luck.
work with her...

Sometimes i think around 20% of my customers are acutally mentally retarded.

Giver her a refund and tell her if she wants to SEO her own site the best advice you can
give her is a 200k pinged xrumer blast