When you rent already ranked sites what strategy do you use?

I am thinking of running WP with related articles to help with content for increased rankings. Within the design I plan on including contact info of the client which will be predominately displayed. In addition to that I want to have a developed form to be used as lead generation. More fields than a regular contact form which would match it more to the niche & provide more information about customers potential clients. Technically you can even rent contact info to 1 customer and sell generated leads to the same customer and / or others.

I'm involved in the offline scene (unfortunately), and what I've seen is 95% of calls I drive to my clients are via their local business listings. They also rank #1 or first page for 20 keywords I target and those very rarely get calls. For an example, if you type in "plumber glendale" my client is #3 right now, been position #1-3 for weeks now and not a single call. So unless you're planning to offer business listings as well, these clients don't stick around. They don't care about ranks or placements, all they care about is CALLS.

I agree, any smart business owner should care about actions and not position. My dilemma is that I have domains ranking and no income from them. I want to monetize them one way or another.

You are a little confused. If I would have a client in this niche already for local business listings than I would most likely redirect my current position to boost up clients position. Since I am involved in a different situation I am dealing with a different game plan. Lets say for this niche if I rank someone to be in top local result I can charge $5000/month. At the same time I would charge $1000/month just to display their contact info (regardless if anyone calls) and charge $500 per sold lead. While you are doing that you are still in control of the domain and can continue doing SEO work. At any point in time you can redirect this domain to your client to give it more link juice which can help with local listings.

Originally Posted by WhoYoDaddy

I agree, any smart business owner should care about actions and not position. My dilemma is that I have domains ranking and no income from them. I want to monetize them one way or another.

You are a little confused. If I would have a client in this niche already for local business listings than I would most likely redirect my current position to boost up clients position. Since I am involved in a different situation I am dealing with a different game plan. Lets say for this niche if I rank someone to be in top local result I can charge $5000/month. At the same time I would charge $1000/month just to display their contact info (regardless if anyone calls) and charge $500 per sold lead. While you are doing that you are still in control of the domain and can continue doing SEO work. At any point in time you can redirect this domain to your client to give it more link juice which can help with local listings.

What industry are you in that justifies you charging 5k a month or 500/lead?! I have clients in most of the local business niches (plumber, contractors,painters,etc) and there would be no way in hell I would be able to charge that much and still be in business. There are some clients that want maximum exposure via global seo (broad generic terms) and those can fetch you 4 figures a month but that isn't my business plan, and for those type of players, they usually already have their own ecommerce, or corp site up and want work done there and not some "lead generation site" you put up. Local Keyword+city type words; no way. I am still in control of the domains, they all reside on my server and URL are always generic so when customers cancel, I can just plug in a new client and track number and im good to go. I'm not sure if you're new to the offline game and you're just speculating, but I am telling you from real life experience running an offline SEO operation that its not as easy as it seems to come out the gate charging 5k a month, or 1k a month displaying just contact info.

Originally Posted by mudbutt

What industry are you in that justifies you charging 5k a month or 500/lead?! I have clients in most of the local business niches (plumber, contractors,painters,etc) and there would be no way in hell I would be able to charge that much and still be in business. There are some clients that want maximum exposure via global seo (broad generic terms) and those can fetch you 4 figures a month but that isn't my business plan, and for those type of players, they usually already have their own ecommerce, or corp site up and want work done there and not some "lead generation site" you put up. Local Keyword+city type words; no way. I am still in control of the domains, they all reside on my server and URL are always generic so when customers cancel, I can just plug in a new client and track number and im good to go. I'm not sure if you're new to the offline game and you're just speculating, but I am telling you from real life experience running an offline SEO operation that its not as easy as it seems to come out the gate charging 5k a month, or 1k a month displaying just contact info.

Do you charge extra for the google places listings? And I think you would have let them keep it if they stop paying 'the rent' for the normal website, right?

Originally Posted by janist

Do you charge extra for the google places listings? And I think you would have let them keep it if they stop paying 'the rent' for the normal website, right?

The local places is included in the price. If it werent for local listings, we would lose customers due to driving no calls. They lose their "rented" spot once they stop paying. The way we market the package is we are lead generation via internet by way of a "lead generation" page we set up, not a custom website package + promotion like most other SEO companies. We don't explicity state that its "rented" out. We haven't had any problems with people complaining about losing the space once they stop paying. Sometimes, clients have their own websites they want us to promote, so we end up promoting theirs AND the lead generation page as well and we charge double the monthly fee. Hope that helps...if any of you have more questions, let me know.

Hey mudbutt,

thanks for answering my questions. I def. have a few questions, would be great if you can elaborate a bit.

1.So, do you use a virtual number to track the calls to the client ?
2.The Lead Generation Form is just a simple contact form that sends the infos once to your client and once to you via Email?
3.What is you're monthly rate for a page one ranking lead gen. site and a good places listing?
4.Do you rank the sites first? What about the Places listing?

Thanks again, man!

Originally Posted by janist

Hey mudbutt,

thanks for answering my questions. I def. have a few questions, would be great if you can elaborate a bit.

1.So, do you use a virtual number to track the calls to the client ?
2.The Lead Generation Form is just a simple contact form that sends the infos once to your client and once to you via Email?
3.What is you're monthly rate for a page one ranking lead gen. site and a good places listing?
4.Do you rank the sites first? What about the Places listing?

Thanks again, man!

1. No, I use call tracking fro avidtrak.
2. The lead generation form I use is Gravity Forms. Nothing is better then Gravity for tracking leads via form. The info is sent to the client and myself for record keeping.
3. I can't tell you what I charge because you'll probably be able to figure out my operation, but what I can tell you is me and 90% of my direct competitors charge 109-399 for our packages.
4. Not intentionally. We usually build a template wordpress and start work from there. If clients drop, we sometimes plug a new client into the old site if they are of similar businesses. However, 95% of the time we get a new domain anyways because most of the refs in the business directories out there will be filled with info from the old business, which is a big no no for google places. It just depends on the situation.

Originally Posted by mudbutt

The local places is included in the price. If it werent for local listings, we would lose customers due to driving no calls. They lose their "rented" spot once they stop paying. The way we market the package is we are lead generation via internet by way of a "lead generation" page we set up, not a custom website package + promotion like most other SEO companies. We don't explicity state that its "rented" out. We haven't had any problems with people complaining about losing the space once they stop paying. Sometimes, clients have their own websites they want us to promote, so we end up promoting theirs AND the lead generation page as well and we charge double the monthly fee. Hope that helps...if any of you have more questions, let me know.

Thank you for providing some "real world" perspective on this strategy, it is much appreciated.

On the "lead capture" sites/pages you said you recieve virtually 0 calls into the businesses you promote. Do you get many leads from visitors that fill out a lead capture form?

Have you tried a shorter capture form? Have you tried giving away a coupon/discount and/or a FREE report for filling out the lead capture form?

Also, you mentioned you serve most local businesses: (plumber, contractors,painters,etc) . Have you found that you can charge higher for clientel such as accountants, lawyers, etc where customer value is higher?

It seems this is a take on the famous thread posted by Dark One (I think)...have you also read the Thread by Taktical? He outlines his hybrid offline biz model as well which is a bit different. I was wondering if you had any feedback on that strategy vs. this one.

Feedback from a reputable member like yourself who has done this method is AWESOME! I am in the process of transitioning my online biz to a hybrid focusing on SEO, lead generation, social marketing, etc for offline businesses. If there is anything you feel may help me get started in the right way that would be great!!!

Thank you in advance for your time!

Originally Posted by kboxer7

Thank you for providing some "real world" perspective on this strategy, it is much appreciated.

On the "lead capture" sites/pages you said you recieve virtually 0 calls into the businesses you promote. Do you get many leads from visitors that fill out a lead capture form?

Have you tried a shorter capture form? Have you tried giving away a coupon/discount and/or a FREE report for filling out the lead capture form?

Feedback from a reputable member like yourself who has done this method is AWESOME! I am in the process of transitioning my online biz to a hybrid focusing on SEO, lead generation, social marketing, etc for offline businesses. If there is anything you feel may help me get started in the right way that would be great!!!

Thank you in advance for your time!

The lead gen pages DO get calls when they are ranked on Google Places. When I said they don't get many calls, I was talking about calls as a result of organic rankings (sites underneath the local listings). When the business is listed in the google places, they get calls. As for the lead form, the only leads I ever get are also when I am ranked on Places. Even then, its only a very low % of impressions. For example, the plumber site has had over 4,000 impressions this month and only 3 leads. Very low. But another plumber site i had up in a nearby city that IS on google places is getting many calls and a higher % in form fillouts. Same template, only difference is one is in Places and the other isn't (yet). Discounts and incentives are given for web visitors. Organic listing, in my experience, only helps with client retention rates. Its just something to show them when they call and harass customer care, lol.

If you're about to get into this industry, beware! Very cutthroat and can be very difficult in the beginning when you're doing everything by yourself. Also, a VERY important tip is to NEVER leave footprints on your lead gen pages, because in all likelyhood, you'll lose that client to me

Have you tried ranking for "plumber sydney" id say that would bring in more calls but obviously harder to rank?

Originally Posted by mudbutt

The lead gen pages DO get calls when they are ranked on Google Places. When I said they don't get many calls, I was talking about calls as a result of organic rankings (sites underneath the local listings). When the business is listed in the google places, they get calls. As for the lead form, the only leads I ever get are also when I am ranked on Places. Even then, its only a very low % of impressions. For example, the plumber site has had over 4,000 impressions this month and only 3 leads. Very low. But another plumber site i had up in a nearby city that IS on google places is getting many calls and a higher % in form fillouts. Same template, only difference is one is in Places and the other isn't (yet). Discounts and incentives are given for web visitors. Organic listing, in my experience, only helps with client retention rates. Its just something to show them when they call and harass customer care, lol.

If you're about to get into this industry, beware! Very cutthroat and can be very difficult in the beginning when you're doing everything by yourself. Also, a VERY important tip is to NEVER leave footprints on your lead gen pages, because in all likelyhood, you'll lose that client to me

Appreciate the heads up man. I knew G places had an impact but damn. So local organic listings even with high search volume are pretty much worthless.

Have you tried testing whether or not a "review" style site featuring customer feedback (much like yelp/places ratings) may have a higher lead production value?

I do have a custom CMS designed specifically for local lead gen sites....gonna have to check the footprint with that now lol

Thanks for your answers muddbutt.

What about the 'new' hybrid listings where places+organic listing are combined? Or do you not combine website+places listing?

So overall, the best way to generate leads is to dominate the organic results locally as well as a good position in G. places for the local keywords, right? Furthermore, one can target local keywords that do not trigger places to possibly generate a few more leads?

I read the few WSOs available on the rent a site model and the bigger threads on here and it's something i really want to try in my country. I know how to rank a website organically, but I have no real experience with places and local search results. The traditional rent-a-site model does not include places at all. So your approach is pretty interesting.

I read through all of the thread, I will do my best to contribute where I can. I do/did have some questions of my own to ask, too.

Firstly, the thread that The Dark One made and the one made by Taktical are two very different business models. The Dark One's method is to create a site, rank it and (once it is generating leads) lease it out to a business. The important part to note here is: make sure you are bringing your client more business, or they have no reason to keep paying you a monthly recurring.

The thread that Taktical made is equally as impressive & informative, but it must not be mistaken to be the same model. His model is more focusing on improving the SEO ranking of his clients OWN website. At the end of the day, whenever his client finishes up working with him because the work is done, their site stays there and they stop paying. Of course, there are always more KW's to go after so this does not need to be the case.

The ultimate difference between the two models, in the end, is that in the rent-a-site, when the client stops paying - they stop getting results. In the SEO model where you do SEO for their OWN website, they stop paying - they still see results till they start dropping off for their KW's. Both models are great, both can make a lot of money, I am sure, if done correctly.

I am also looking at getting into the rent-a-site business. I have 5 websites in the dental industry already, ready to go. If you are a noob, like me, then I recommend trying to choose one industry and sticking with them for the time being. It gives you the ability to learn that specific industry better than if you were trying to handle selling several different industries at the one time. Additionally, if you provide results, then you may just become the 'local expert' for that industry in/around the area, which I am sure no doubt holds more credibility if you are the "DENTAL" expert, for example. Either way, I am sure it works with multiple industries all at the one time like mudbutt is doing, but I am saying this more so at noobs, like myself (noob as in, new to the offline thing).

A few questions:

1) Does anyone know how to get myself a Google Places without actually having an address in that suburb? I want to get Google places set up and on page one along with my websites which are already in the 1st page in organic searches. At this point, I should have enough callers to justify a decent monthly recurring.

I tried a bit of a BH method to opening a Google Places account, but it has been 3 weeks and no post card - my method must have failed. I am thinking of opening a PO box here and seeing if that will do the trick. Will open one just for a month or two, till I get the post card, and then I will just close it

Is that a good way? Anyone else got better ways?

Are you guys also doing PROPER offline, as in, non internet related marketing? Depending on the industry, there are some suitable industries where their 'service' appeals to the wider public, so that you could potentially distribute flyers around that specific area to all residents, and lead them to your website. This will result in pure offline traffic, no internet/SEO traffic at all. Just a bit of a 'mix' that could help to get more callers for clients?

PS: Mudbutt, why do you say the offline market is not a good one? Can you tell me of your experiences/thoughts that led you to think this way? If I hear them from you now, then maybe they won't be such a shock when I experience them for myself

haha i did something on this lines as well
built a site and ranked for "Lawn Care" terms.. but I havnt been able to get an advertiser to put his info on my site
basically i build a 7page css/html site for this and i did some basic on page seo and minimal SEO gigs and got it rankin on page 1 for those keywords all this happened last month, but I havnt been able to find an advertiser to put his contact info under my site's " Our Providers" Section some of them wanted to pay per lead.
I had two emails from potential clients who misread the site and thought we are the actual providers.. I havnt been able to make use of those as cold callin/emailing didn really work lol


may be i focussed on the wrong niche but i wasn hoping to get email enquiries, it was just a test to see if i can actually do it.

on the flip side, fall is comin up soon and most lawn care related contracts are done beginin of Feb/March for the entire season-summer/fall

May be i ll hav some luck next year , i only spent about 200-300$ on the site and everything so if i can get 1 client i ll atleast make my money back !

Offline is not easy- depends on your city and the business you chose to target and then its a hit and miss lol

I already rank for a niche where lifetime value of customer is very high and its targeting a wealthy location. Lets say for the sake of an example I am ranking for beverly hills plastic surgeon. One customer equals thousands of dollars in revenue over time. $500/lead for plastic surgeon is a reasonable price, same goes for a roofing company. You sending 1 client a month could mean $10-20k in business for some types of business. Now ask yourself - as a business owner how much would you pay in referral fees to acquire $10-20k of new business? With 10% being lowest you are looking $1-2k. If you are generous at 20% you are looking $2-4k.

As stated before I would use a detailed lead form. For plastic surgeon you can ask what type of surgery lead would be interested in, are they paying in full (plastic surgery is not covered by insurance) or payment plan, do they want to schedule an appointment, the list goes and on. The more information you can get from a lead the higher you can charge for it. Location, location, location. Leads for Beverly Hills, California are worth more than leads for Compton, California.

Please lets stay on the subject of renting the site and not twisting it into ranking a website or local listings.

Thanks for reeling this topic back in. Good info all around though. I do have a quick question for you....

It seems that you are able to generate a sufficient number of leads to sell and/or to justify renting your sites to high ticket clients. Are you having better luck generating leads for those sites that do NOT compete with G places or has G places (in you opinion) not affected your strategy much?

Thank you in advance for your time.

Originally Posted by WhoYoDaddy

I already rank for a niche where lifetime value of customer is very high and its targeting a wealthy location. Lets say for the sake of an example I am ranking for beverly hills plastic surgeon. One customer equals thousands of dollars in revenue over time. $500/lead for plastic surgeon is a reasonable price, same goes for a roofing company. You sending 1 client a month could mean $10-20k in business for some types of business. Now ask yourself - as a business owner how much would you pay in referral fees to acquire $10-20k of new business? With 10% being lowest you are looking $1-2k. If you are generous at 20% you are looking $2-4k.

As stated before I would use a detailed lead form. For plastic surgeon you can ask what type of surgery lead would be interested in, are they paying in full (plastic surgery is not covered by insurance) or payment plan, do they want to schedule an appointment, the list goes and on. The more information you can get from a lead the higher you can charge for it. Location, location, location. Leads for Beverly Hills, California are worth more than leads for Compton, California.

Please lets stay on the subject of renting the site and not twisting it into ranking a website or local listings.

Originally Posted by WhoYoDaddy

I already rank for a niche where lifetime value of customer is very high and its targeting a wealthy location. Lets say for the sake of an example I am ranking for beverly hills plastic surgeon. One customer equals thousands of dollars in revenue over time. $500/lead for plastic surgeon is a reasonable price, same goes for a roofing company. You sending 1 client a month could mean $10-20k in business for some types of business. Now ask yourself - as a business owner how much would you pay in referral fees to acquire $10-20k of new business? With 10% being lowest you are looking $1-2k. If you are generous at 20% you are looking $2-4k.

As stated before I would use a detailed lead form. For plastic surgeon you can ask what type of surgery lead would be interested in, are they paying in full (plastic surgery is not covered by insurance) or payment plan, do they want to schedule an appointment, the list goes and on. The more information you can get from a lead the higher you can charge for it. Location, location, location. Leads for Beverly Hills, California are worth more than leads for Compton, California.

Please lets stay on the subject of renting the site and not twisting it into ranking a website or local listings.

I guess you won't know til you try I guess. You seem to already know what you're talking about and my real world experience isn't going to change your mind. Goodluck with renting them out.

Originally Posted by scottx1995

haha i did something on this lines as well
built a site and ranked for "Lawn Care" terms.. but I havnt been able to get an advertiser to put his info on my site
basically i build a 7page css/html site for this and i did some basic on page seo and minimal SEO gigs and got it rankin on page 1 for those keywords all this happened last month, but I havnt been able to find an advertiser to put his contact info under my site's " Our Providers" Section some of them wanted to pay per lead.
I had two emails from potential clients who misread the site and thought we are the actual providers.. I havnt been able to make use of those as cold callin/emailing didn really work lol


may be i focussed on the wrong niche but i wasn hoping to get email enquiries, it was just a test to see if i can actually do it.

on the flip side, fall is comin up soon and most lawn care related contracts are done beginin of Feb/March for the entire season-summer/fall

May be i ll hav some luck next year , i only spent about 200-300$ on the site and everything so if i can get 1 client i ll atleast make my money back !

Offline is not easy- depends on your city and the business you chose to target and then its a hit and miss lol

The pay-per-lead idea was fair? Why did you not go ahead with that?

If you were planning on charging them $300 per month with an estimated 20 callers, that's $15 per lead. You can have said "sure" and let them pay for leads (which you can track by email or phone) and do it that way. There would be no problem in this case, as you still make the money you originally anticipated.

The only real problem in such a case is that you don't want to do it a pay-per-lead way because you know/think you won't get them any visitors. If this is the case, you are not yet ready to lease it out to anyone, because no one but yourself would be making profit.

I am not saying this is the case, it is just something I want to put out there. We need to help the business owners with measurable business, not just provide them with a site that 'seems' it might generate results. Don't worry, I am learning all of this myself now too - I have several sites ranked at the top of Google, and they get visitors but not many callers.

Having a site at the top of Google itself will net you sh*t all. Unless the site looks good. Unless it is easy to navigate. Unless it has good content. Unless it has an effective, clear & simply CALL TO ACTION - you won't be getting much from it.

That's why now I am working on the conversion rates for my site.

To further you offer, you could introduce Google Places and YouTubes videos all ranked on the first page, along with the website. In this case, you have 3 methods to attract visitors. More visitors with a decent site = more callers. Once you have a decent amount of callers, at least 5/month, you can them offer it to them for a free month to see how it works for them.

Of course, with 5 callers you'd need to SHOW them that they got the callers from you, from your call tracking. If on the other hand you're handing them 20+ callers, I'd say they could probably tell the difference themselves without needing to be shown statistics.

Originally Posted by WhoYoDaddy

I already rank for a niche where lifetime value of customer is very high and its targeting a wealthy location. Lets say for the sake of an example I am ranking for beverly hills plastic surgeon. One customer equals thousands of dollars in revenue over time. $500/lead for plastic surgeon is a reasonable price, same goes for a roofing company. You sending 1 client a month could mean $10-20k in business for some types of business. Now ask yourself - as a business owner how much would you pay in referral fees to acquire $10-20k of new business? With 10% being lowest you are looking $1-2k. If you are generous at 20% you are looking $2-4k.

As stated before I would use a detailed lead form. For plastic surgeon you can ask what type of surgery lead would be interested in, are they paying in full (plastic surgery is not covered by insurance) or payment plan, do they want to schedule an appointment, the list goes and on. The more information you can get from a lead the higher you can charge for it. Location, location, location. Leads for Beverly Hills, California are worth more than leads for Compton, California.

Please lets stay on the subject of renting the site and not twisting it into ranking a website or local listings.

Very good information!

But I do have one, albeit minor, disagreement. With the rent-a-site, I think it is a very good idea to have a Google Places set up to - no doubt you're missing out on traffic and potential leads?

Otherwise, top info. there, really puts it into perspective.

I assume that you charge PER lead not per CONVERTED lead, is that correct? Would be hard to have to believe them whether a lead converted or not.

Why complicate things for yourself. You sell detailed leads, you are practically giving clients away.

I could setup local listing for this website and have it ring down to VM. If I setup local listings for it than the site will only collect leads, since my local listing number will be listed. Messages left on VM can be returned and more leads can be collected. If you are already enjoying organic + local results you can still rent out to the business.

Different ways to do things and I want to try to approach this with rent option.

The only problem is, at least for me, the traffic in these areas is probably not high enough itself. Supplementing with Google Places should see a bit more traffic, and thus value for the client.

I'll be honest, if i could make a website and have that on it's own provide callers for my client, then I wouldn't even give Google Places a second thought

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second:

No matter what method the business in question markets it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY they are able to directly measure EXACTLY which customers came in SPECIFICALLY from that advert. Yes, they can use dedicated #800 numbers and/or coupon codes on some print material to get an idea, but the fact remains that a LOT of people saw those ads and did not take action, AND just the same, there were those that saw those ads, took action, but were not accounted for in any trackable way.

EXAMPLE: Restaurant grand opening ad in a newspaper with a coupon to track visitors (most prob won't even have this). I go to the restaurant because I remembered the grand opening, but I did not bother to clip the 10% coupon (true story actually).

The ad brought me in, but unless every waiter asks every guest how they heard about the grand opening then they won't know. In this example 100 people may have acted on the advertisment but only 30 clipped the coupon. Now the restaurant owner might think damn, that full page color ad cost me $x and I only made $x back, when in reality he made a lot more off the ad but does not know it was directly related to that ad.

My whole rambleing point at 3am EST in the U.S. is that as long as we are bringing REAL VISITORS to a page that advertises their business in a positive light we are providing value AND potentially many customers...even if they don't enter their email or call the number on the webpage. They may just stop by (in which case we probably need to partner with the biz owner to develop other methods to track where their clientel come from).

Man I gotta go to sleep...way too many typos in this post that I'm not even gonna fix lol.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by kboxer7

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second:

No matter what method the business in question markets it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY they are able to directly measure EXACTLY which customers came in SPECIFICALLY from that advert. Yes, they can use dedicated #800 numbers and/or coupon codes on some print material to get an idea, but the fact remains that a LOT of people saw those ads and did not take action, AND just the same, there were those that saw those ads, took action, but were not accounted for in any trackable way.

EXAMPLE: Restaurant grand opening ad in a newspaper with a coupon to track visitors (most prob won't even have this). I go to the restaurant because I remembered the grand opening, but I did not bother to clip the 10% coupon (true story actually).

The ad brought me in, but unless every waiter asks every guest how they heard about the grand opening then they won't know. In this example 100 people may have acted on the advertisment but only 30 clipped the coupon. Now the restaurant owner might think damn, that full page color ad cost me $x and I only made $x back, when in reality he made a lot more off the ad but does not know it was directly related to that ad.

My whole rambleing point at 3am EST in the U.S. is that as long as we are bringing REAL VISITORS to a page that advertises their business in a positive light we are providing value AND potentially many customers...even if they don't enter their email or call the number on the webpage. They may just stop by (in which case we probably need to partner with the biz owner to develop other methods to track where their clientel come from).

Man I gotta go to sleep...way too many typos in this post that I'm not even gonna fix lol.

Cheers!

You're comparing oranges to apples. A restaurant isn't dependent on calls the same way, say, a plumber is. When our client is on google, they get a unique tracking number. Even if the potential client doesn't call the first time they see the webpage, when they DO call later down the line the only number they have is the tracking number so it is trackable. Most people that utilize internet marketing campaigns are SERVICES and not something like a restaurant where they can just "stop by". If you think business owners care about "visitors" or "ranks" or "exposure", think again. 99% of the time the only thing they care about is calls/leads.

Originally Posted by mudbutt

You're comparing oranges to apples. A restaurant isn't dependent on calls the same way, say, a plumber is. When our client is on google, they get a unique tracking number. Even if the potential client doesn't call the first time they see the webpage, when they DO call later down the line the only number they have is the tracking number so it is trackable. Most people that utilize internet marketing campaigns are SERVICES and not something like a restaurant where they can just "stop by". If you think business owners care about "visitors" or "ranks" or "exposure", think again. 99% of the time the only thing they care about is calls/leads.

I am finding that most of the calls for the plumbing shop are cumming for supper long tail key words for strange stuff. It seams like the heavily saturated key words even if you are at the top your loosing out on calls due to name recognition.

would love to pick your brain and maybe swap techniques.

PS i actually am a plumber

You are right that there are some long tails getting traffic. And in many local, smaller markets - if you know what those long tails are, you will probably be able to easily rank #1 for them with little to no effort.

You know when you go into Google and start typing "plumber new york" if you don't hit enter and you leave it, Google also shows you a whole lot of other suggestions that people are typing in (they are all longer tail keywords) and you can try to rank for those instead of the main "plumber new york" as it should be easier, and still get a bit of traffic.

For smaller towns/areas though, try rank for the main keyword and also the smaller keywords too

Originally Posted by kboxer7

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second:

No matter what method the business in question markets it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY they are able to directly measure EXACTLY which customers came in SPECIFICALLY from that advert. Yes, they can use dedicated #800 numbers and/or coupon codes on some print material to get an idea, but the fact remains that a LOT of people saw those ads and did not take action, AND just the same, there were those that saw those ads, took action, but were not accounted for in any trackable way.

EXAMPLE: Restaurant grand opening ad in a newspaper with a coupon to track visitors (most prob won't even have this). I go to the restaurant because I remembered the grand opening, but I did not bother to clip the 10% coupon (true story actually).

The ad brought me in, but unless every waiter asks every guest how they heard about the grand opening then they won't know. In this example 100 people may have acted on the advertisment but only 30 clipped the coupon. Now the restaurant owner might think damn, that full page color ad cost me $x and I only made $x back, when in reality he made a lot more off the ad but does not know it was directly related to that ad.

My whole rambleing point at 3am EST in the U.S. is that as long as we are bringing REAL VISITORS to a page that advertises their business in a positive light we are providing value AND potentially many customers...even if they don't enter their email or call the number on the webpage. They may just stop by (in which case we probably need to partner with the biz owner to develop other methods to track where their clientel come from).

Man I gotta go to sleep...way too many typos in this post that I'm not even gonna fix lol.

Cheers!

I think you are right, to a degree, but like Mud said, it depends on industry. I think restaurants are one of the few where someone does not need to show interest prior to coming in. With a dentist for example, you can't just rock up and expect to be looked at and most people know this - so they either call, or they don't. But hey, if they save the number in their phone and call at some later date, that is still fine because you can still track the call

Originally Posted by mudbutt

The lead gen pages DO get calls when they are ranked on Google Places.

This is really valuable information to me, thanks!

Could you go into some detail about how you rank your clients above the competition in Google Places?

Originally Posted by WhoYoDaddy

Please lets stay on the subject of renting the site and not twisting it into ranking a website or local listings.

I apologize. I'm just very interested in Google Places optimization from a reputable poster like, Mudbutt.

Originally Posted by GrizzlyAdams

This is really valuable information to me, thanks!

Could you go into some detail about how you rank your clients above the competition in Google Places?




I apologize. I'm just very interested in Google Places optimization from a reputable poster like, Mudbutt.

+1 would also like to know how to properly rank for google places these days.

from what i know you post a few reviews about your business and get a few back links to it before applying for your place,thats so g will find them when evaluating your listing . you need a local address and phone number the address to have the postcard sent to ,skype is quite good for numbers they usually give you choice of numbers you can rent, look for 1 that looks like its a local code . upload 10 nice pictures that you have already re-named with your keywords , upload 5 videos of people happily having their teeth pulled out by the dentist or the something . when your place goes live get some reviews posted on it . im in the uk so for most local the competition is non existant soit doesnt take much , i cant speak for anywhere else

Me too I would like to share about GPlaces listings.

The thing is I just got a site on google about buffets in my city (DarkOne thread) some time ago and seriously, it seems easy at first in your head, but it is harder when you put your site online.

I do not know why the hell this buffet site does not reach 1st page on google does not matter what I try. Competition near zero, neither of the top10 G sites have more than 5 backlinks and they do not have on-site optimization. Nothing. I have a well designed WP site with 3 unique original articles (300 words long) and well on-site seo. Also, 100+ backlinks.

I am on page 2 and did not move any position last 2 months.

So I am gathering some info on G Places listings and how to optimize it. Also I want to create a fake listing. Anyone willing to share some info on this?

Thanks

I basically do this for a living.

My strategy is to by a keyword specific domain: plumbingglendale[dot]com

1. This can help with rankings
2. It is not a specific business name. Ex: Bobs Plumbing

Then buy a virtual address close to the epi-center of the metro area the are in.

1. One of Google Places algos is relative location to the city + service query.
2. Doing this you can receive mail at the address and go through the places verifications
3. You now have an address for all local listings/directories.

Next get a call tracking line. Attach this to all the listings and directories + heavily promote it on the website.

1. This is good for keeping track of where they are getting the calls from
2. Also how many calls they are getting from your service.

Lastly, get that puppy ranked! Run some industry specific adsense ads or affiliate promos to make some extra cash and sell it for 10x what they would charge a clients per month. Ex: pool service = ~ $100 per month. So figure if they are in a metro area, charge them $800-$1000 per month depending on search volume.

Good Luck!

Where do you get a virtual address? And you then rent the site to a small local business for 800-1k $ / month?

i built a site last year when all the hype began on here about local seo for dentists and accountants ,i built about 10 nice industry related links then blasted it with bbrez ping studio to 36 k sites and a few weeks later was sitting on page 4 , i then built a twitter account and followed all the people in the dentists area,this way giving the blog away of keeping search engine ranking by posting the dentists latest deals to local twitter followers . i thought it added a nice touch . but im no good at selling i cant even sell myself ,lol. so i left it sit there, this morning i have a check on it and its top of page 2 only pushed out of page 1 by g00gle places . so i logged in over 8.5k visits since september averaging around 15 per day .

i forgot to mention this is in the dentistry niche so the numbers are nice . so who would want a site like this i thought . dentists on page 6 would want this so i went to page 5 or 6 and blatantly emailed 20 dentists , theres loads more on the local directories without sites. like i say i dont do selling so my mail was very much my names this ,i got that, it get this many visits .would you be interested ? ive had 2 replies , 1 is some big cosmetic surgery business so things look promising ,if that turns cold its given me the push to be cheeky and try some more . i think thats a good way past the gate keeper most business people whether they are a dentist or a builder would rather deal with there email themselves .anyway i think im going to ask around £2000 ($3200 ish) with abit a free hosting thrown in as im so nice or so i get the future hosting out of them as well .to give abit more value i was thinking of offering after completion of the deal (and my money is out of my paypal)doing there g00gle places listing for them so they get the best traffic out of the deal without me doing to much work . 15 minutes extra work .

What service do you use for virtual addresses? Regus? Haven't found anything else for Germany, anyone up for recommendations, as Regus seems kinda pricey, just for the verification of the listing.

Can someone point me to this Dark One post about renting? I've looked and can't seem to find it.

Originally Posted by krzysiekz

The pay-per-lead idea was fair? Why did you not go ahead with that?

If you were planning on charging them $300 per month with an estimated 20 callers, that's $15 per lead. You can have said "sure" and let them pay for leads (which you can track by email or phone) and do it that way. There would be no problem in this case, as you still make the money you originally anticipated.

The only real problem in such a case is that you don't want to do it a pay-per-lead way because you know/think you won't get them any visitors. If this is the case, you are not yet ready to lease it out to anyone, because no one but yourself would be making profit.

I am not saying this is the case, it is just something I want to put out there. We need to help the business owners with measurable business, not just provide them with a site that 'seems' it might generate results. Don't worry, I am learning all of this myself now too - I have several sites ranked at the top of Google, and they get visitors but not many callers.

Having a site at the top of Google itself will net you sh*t all. Unless the site looks good. Unless it is easy to navigate. Unless it has good content. Unless it has an effective, clear & simply CALL TO ACTION - you won't be getting much from it.

That's why now I am working on the conversion rates for my site.

To further you offer, you could introduce Google Places and YouTubes videos all ranked on the first page, along with the website. In this case, you have 3 methods to attract visitors. More visitors with a decent site = more callers. Once you have a decent amount of callers, at least 5/month, you can them offer it to them for a free month to see how it works for them.

Of course, with 5 callers you'd need to SHOW them that they got the callers from you, from your call tracking. If on the other hand you're handing them 20+ callers, I'd say they could probably tell the difference themselves without needing to be shown statistics.

hmm thanks for your response.
no i get about 6 visits/day
get about 5-10 emails that people fill out on the contact us form as there is no phone number mentioned on it.
I tried selling the leads but its not worth my time =/ i rather sell advertising spots with their phone number and contact info advertised and forget about it and move onto another project :P
may be i am lazy
I got involved in a lot of projects some of which make more with not much time invested so I decided to focus on those as I already made some from it.

this one I will have to wait till the begining of next season and make one last effort .

Originally Posted by mudbutt

I'm involved in the offline scene (unfortunately), and what I've seen is 95% of calls I drive to my clients are via their local business listings.

What are local business listings?
I am not familiar with local seo.

I think he's referring to Google Places.

Originally Posted by johndea

What are local business listings?
I am not familiar with local seo.

Originally Posted by Patchworks

Can someone point me to this Dark One post about renting? I've looked and can't seem to find it.

Here you go: http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackha...id-method.html

I just read DarkOne's post and considering both domains are not up and are for sale, I have to assume that didn't play out to well...

I'm actually in the lease website business and have several Dentist websites. But I don't use his method.

Originally Posted by scottx1995

hmm thanks for your response.
no i get about 6 visits/day
get about 5-10 emails that people fill out on the contact us form as there is no phone number mentioned on it.
I tried selling the leads but its not worth my time =/ i rather sell advertising spots with their phone number and contact info advertised and forget about it and move onto another project :P
snipped ...
.

I think it would be a good idea to to hand those leads over to, say, 4 local competing businesses for free. Let them work the leads. And, if they are interested, they will entertain your offer to rent the website. You will already have shown them value.

As a matter of fact this may just be a decent client getting scheme in and of itself. You can even have different ads on the site and be gathering important marketing data - which ads work and which ad location is best. Maybe even have the calls being transferred to the prospective clients, all while being monitored of course.

You could notify the prospect client, get their approval for the free ad, and then start sending them leads. At least the leads get some service. If the leads never get service, they will never go back to that site again.

Just a thought.
DW

is there anybody on this thread using the site rental model with a contract template theyre willing to share?

I would be interested as well... I'm finding this method hard to sell.. I've talked to others and they say the same.

Is anyone having much luck?