As a seller.

Because there's no way to confirm the buyer got the product, and they can claim they never got it and get your account limited?

I'm talking about selling things individually, NOT like through Clickbank cuz I know PayPal and Clickbank are in bed together so it's safe...

So my question is, if you want to sell eBooks, could you put the .pdf file on a CD and mail it? That way you'll have a shipping confirmation number. I hear that will protect PayPal sellers (and scammers have taken advantage of this by mailing boxes of rocks to their customers, and then when the customer complains, the seller says "ah-ah, check the shipping number, it was delivered" and PayPal sides with the seller).

Always ship something with confirmation.

You don't even have to put it on a CD. Just send them the digital PDF and then send them a blank CD as your insurance. As long as you can prove that they got the product you're good.

E-Junkie offers a digital download service with which they log IP addresses when the buyer downloads the product. That might suffice also.

so if they want an ebook, ship it on a CD (unless you're selling it through Clickbank), right?

If you're using CB then they have their own billing system and that is all out of your hands. But I'll warn you with CB a user can get a refund in a flash if they don't like your product. All they have to do is request it from CB, they can completely ignore you.

Originally Posted by killzone

If you're using CB then they have their own billing system and that is all out of your hands. But I'll warn you with CB a user can get a refund in a flash if they don't like your product. All they have to do is request it from CB, they can completely ignore you.

I know, but at least your PayPal account won't get limited that way cuz some dbag decided to screw you.

Originally Posted by mollah

so if they want an ebook, ship it on a CD (unless you're selling it through Clickbank), right?

As killzone stated right above e-junkie would be fine as well. Or yu can go the old fashioned way and send the the ebook as an attachment in your email.

If you are selling an ebook using your own landing page, then I beleive this is a most, hundreds of suckers will be able to see it and at the minimum suspect (first complaint) paypal will request you for your toilet papper and condoms brand (including a faxed pic of micky mouse with the signature of walt disney on it among some other "regular stuff")

So, if you can avoid the chance of a dispute Il say you take it

This is exactly where I'm at... 3 weeks after he paid some jerk decides he never got the ebook and PayPal locked down my account.
The ebook was sent as an attachment to an email, so I gave all kinds of proof to PP and they are now "reviewing" the dispute.
We'll see what happens.

Originally Posted by EerieNoodles

This is exactly where I'm at... 3 weeks after he paid some jerk decides he never got the ebook and PayPal locked down my account.
The ebook was sent as an attachment to an email, so I gave all kinds of proof to PP and they are now "reviewing" the dispute.
We'll see what happens.

Did he try contacting you first and saying "hey, I never got it?"

If not, I would probably dedicate the next few months of my life to screwing him over. I would sue him for defamation, fraud, and disruption of my business. I would also sue PayPal for fraud if they did not side with me in the face of overwhelming empirical evidence in my favor.

Both of these lawsuits would be highly publicized events. I would register domains to provide updates, gather supporters across hundreds of internet forums, and most likely buy ad space on billboards on major highways to publicize my fight against PayPal and whatever asshole tried to rip me off, etc. Local newspapers and TV agencies would do interviews with me. I would become an internet celebrity.

Whoever ripped me off would be shitting their pants and PayPal would probably settle out of court just to avoid public embarrassment.

But that's just me.

Seriously, I hope PayPal sides with you since it sounds like the other guy is just a giant lying douche.

I've had my fair share of disputes and the only time that PayPal has ever sided with the customer has been in clear cases of fraud or when a customer does a chargeback through their credit card company. I can generally get bullshit disputes turned over in an hour. If there are delays, call PayPal. They'll take care of it quickly.

Originally Posted by oldenstylehats

I've had my fair share of disputes and the only time that PayPal has ever sided with the customer has been in clear cases of fraud or when a customer does a chargeback through their credit card company. I can generally get bullshit disputes turned over in an hour. If there are delays, call PayPal. They'll take care of it quickly.

*knock on wood* I've never had any PayPal issues, but I've spent hours reading forums where (supposedly) innocent people had PayPal side with the scammers even after months of faxing and phone calling to prove their innocence.

Originally Posted by mollah

*knock on wood* I've never had any PayPal issues, but I've spent hours reading forums where (supposedly) innocent people had PayPal side with the scammers even after months of faxing and phone calling to prove their innocence.

Yeah, I have read them too, but I've used PayPal as my payment processor for thousands of transactions for digital downloads with no more issues than I've had with any other payment processor. In a lot of cases, I think people's complaints come down to not understanding how merchant accounts and payment processing works. Though, maybe PayPal business accounts are treated differently than personal accounts. I don't know.

My whole fear with using PayPal for a business idea that I had was the whole "shut down your account in a heartbeat" reputation that they seem to have.

I, as a buyer, didn't receive a digital product from someone and filed a dispute with PayPal and they sided with the seller as they stated they do NOT get into electronic or non-tangible items. I was pretty hot so I filed a complaint with the BBB on Paypal and within a few short days, they sided with me and I got my refund.

Honestly, I'm a bit leary of going into selling using my PP account simply due to the fact that many people like to be dirtbags and claim they never received your product. Unfortunately this world has gone that route. But to the OP, if you choose to use PP to sell electronic items, I'd still protect myself by sending it manually and obtaining proof. good luck!!

Originally Posted by mollah

Did he try contacting you first and saying "hey, I never got it?"

If not, I would probably dedicate the next few months of my life to screwing him over.
But that's just me.

Nope, never heard a word from him in fact it took about 2 1/2 weeks before the dispute showed up. He offered no other comments or info, so I finally escalated it to a claim cuz I was tired of waiting. I should have just called PP at the beginning, but it's less the $20 so I wasn't really that concerned.

I've used PP in hundreds of transactions, personal and eBay, and usually don't have any problems cept of course those damn fees.

Now I'm supposed to be waiting till the 17 for "review"... as oldenstylehats said... I'll call them in the morning.

If I decide to spend the next few months of my life screwing them over I'll contact you for more ideas mollah.

I've had a few of those myself. I easily solved the problem in 4 steps.

1. I re-sent the customer an email with the file attached.
2. I put up a special download page just for the customer, and sent them another email with the link.
3. I put all of that information in the dispute, which essentially gave Paypal all of that information.
4. I waited one day, then escalated the dispute with Paypal

Within two days the situation was resolved in my favor, in all cases. When Paypal can download the file from the link you sent to the customer, there cannot be any controversy.

selling virtual goods or physical goods w/ a shipping address, doesnt matter.

paypal and ebay are SUPER easy for a buyer to scam the seller on.

theres literally 100% for sure ways to get away with it. I use to use them to my advantage back in the day >.>

ANYTHING that is paid for via paypal can be scammed.

*Edit* Curt7 looks like he has a method that would manage to avoid trouble from a scamming buyer though. never knew of anyone to go through that much trouble but it looks like it would work

Originally Posted by EerieNoodles

If I decide to spend the next few months of my life screwing them over I'll contact you for more ideas mollah.

I am here to serve

Originally Posted by oldenstylehats

I can generally get bullshit disputes turned over in an hour. If there are delays, call PayPal. They'll take care of it quickly.

So I called PayPal this morning, talked to a very pleasant and helpful person... a couple minutes on hold and the Claim was ended. The funds were freed up before I could reload the page. I really should have called a long time ago.

Of course this dashes my dreams of internet fame from a lengthy legal battle... maybe next time. But it does feel good when shit works the way it's supposed to.