My only BHW complaint

[akiaki]

This is by far the best resource on the 'net for IM, even WH IM. The community here is awesome... mostly. Of course, there's PLENTY of morons who chime in on every good thread with utterly useless drivel or even lengthy posts espousing flat-out uninformed opinions that do a lot of damage to those of us just trying to learn.

Fortunately, once you read enough, the truth starts to come out, but the problem there is that there are so many pointless posts that it literally takes days to even start to get a grasp of some of the more important concepts. And I'm speaking as a very experienced developer who already knows about all the underlying technologies.

I joined a month ago and I have probably spent about a fifth of my waking hours since then reading non-stop and there's just so much to sift through, I've still got more questions than answers. (OK, well that may not be fair, but I still feel that I'm on the low end of the learning curve, despite I may have read a few books worth of text.)

Before I get too carried away complaining, let me remember to once again stress that BHW is *f'in awesome*!!!! Hands-down the best resource I have seen, and the people who know what they're talking about and bother to put in the time writing tons of helpful posts are to be thanked endlessly.

OK, so back to my only real gripe with BHW - I tend to try to read, read, read, read until I have a good understanding, then start to participate, dip my toes in the water... but I've noticed that certain parts of the forums are off limits to new accounts. This makes total sense, and I commend the mods for creating these kinds of rules -- that preserves the integrity of BHW to a great extent, I'm sure.

However, as I started to wonder how I was going to start to build enough posts to get to the point where my account was less restricted, all I could think of was to start posting stupid "ataboy" or "that's stupid" posts like everyone else does. I'm NEW to this so I don't yet have much to add to the community, and I'd actually prefer to just ask a couple focused questions and spend the rest of my time reading. And really, the questions I have are all answered SOMEWHERE here already - it's just a matter of finding them.

So I'm back to the fact that mostly I just want to read, but in order to post in some places, I have to post 50 more times before that. But I don't have THAT much to add yet and I don't want to keep polluting the good threads with the drivel that there's already far far too much of.

My possibly naive solution? New accounts should be restricted even harder, so that they are only allowed to post in the introductions and lounge forums or something like that. But then that's probably why this here lounge seems to be filled with JV offers because new members can't post on the JV forum. *sigh*

It's also frustrating to see people asking to be spoonfed, or asking how to install WP on otherwise unrelated threads. I guess it's not really that easy to get those people to stop doing dumb stuff like that, but it really increases the time it takes to read BHW. Maybe that's why you see people posting on page 5 of a thread things that clearly indicate they haven't read the previous 4 pages. Am I the only one who actually reads all the posts?

OK, must finish off with another big THANK YOU to the BHW community. You all rock! It may take a while, but I'm learning a lot!

PS - As I now see that posting in places like the lounge don't actually increase one's post count, I guess my suggestion won't work. I understand the logic behind a policy like that, too, but do y'all understand that the result of that policy is very clearly that you'll generate tons of useless posts in the more "important" forums? I see you threaten to ban accounts that spam too many meaningless posts as such, but the reality is there are endless amounts of drivel that, while is nominally on topic, is definitely just polluting otherwise excellent content. I'm certain that that's because you've got plenty of people who need to "unlock" or upgrade their accounts and see no other way than to do that..... man, it's really a BIG bummer for people like me trying to actually spend a lot of time here reading and learning

[skohh]

BHW is like fine wine, the best improve with age.

[clyde]

TL;DR version please?

If you're frustrated you have to go through tons of newb posts before you can find the gems. That's just how it is. Would def. improved if new posters are restricted though.

[BENNY8877]

I didn't read your entire post (who has the time), but like everything, everyone has their own opinions, and we are also a community that just likes to have fun. Sometimes at other's expense. But we are all here to learn, give opinions, and get rid of some demons.

[cool0403]

Its called the Dunning–Kruger effect !

[artizhay]

There is something you're good at here. This forum isn't just about marketing. There's design, programming, networking, blogging, social, offline business, eBay, writing, and more.

Truth is, you will be able to find somewhere to contribute, as you are here because you have a skill. Everyone has something to give to the world, whether it's one small opinion or a breakthrough idea.

So find something that you are at least slightly knowledgeable in - or heck, open yourself up to things you don't know about - and try to contribute an idea about maybe how you would handle a situation, scale an idea, or something similar. If your idea ends up being wrong, someone will correct you and tell you why it's not plausible, and you will learn. Conversely, if your idea is valuable, then you've contributed something worthwhile.

Also, since you're reading around, you should know this forum is all about consolidation of material to create something unique. Use the information you gain to create something to give back, something someone else didn't think of. It will be appreciated.

[vishalgmistry]

now ur talking like you want spoonfed too.
u need only good posts to read.
moderators are not here to please you by deleting bullshit posts.
so better make habit to find good posts and read that only.

[akiaki]

There is something you're good at here. This forum isn't just about marketing. There's design, programming, networking, blogging, social, offline business, eBay, writing, and more.

Truth is, you will be able to find somewhere to contribute, as you are here because you have a skill. Everyone has something to give to the world, whether it's one small opinion or a breakthrough idea.

So find something that you are at least slightly knowledgeable in - or heck, open yourself up to things you don't know about - and try to contribute an idea about maybe how you would handle a situation, scale an idea, or something similar. If your idea ends up being wrong, someone will correct you and tell you why it's not plausible, and you will learn. Conversely, if your idea is valuable, then you've contributed something worthwhile.

Also, since you're reading around, you should know this forum is all about consolidation of material to create something unique. Use the information you gain to create something to give back, something someone else didn't think of. It will be appreciated.

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. I will indeed take this to heart. However, it still doesn't change the problem that probably most other newbs won't take this to heart and will continue to pollute BHW with so much junk.

It's a double-edged sword because you don't want to cripple people from becoming part of the community but as I see it you don't want so much junk on your threads either. Maybe the mods have done the best they could - it's probably a compromise one way or the other. But my eyes have really paid the price over the last month. :-p

[akiaki]

now ur talking like you want spoonfed too.
u need only good posts to read.
moderators are not here to please you by deleting bull**** posts.
so better make habit to find good posts and read that only.

C'mon, that's a really over-simplified reading of the point. Stay civil.

[akiaki]

Its called the Dunning–Kruger effect !

Haha. Yes indeed, you do see a lot of that here, as anywhere else on the net.... and it is frustrating. But more than mis-argued points, I'm trying to point out that there are too many posts that don't even attempt to make any point at all just to garner enough posts....

Anyway, thanks for the good laugh. :-)

[xboxps3wow]

If you have been reading for a while, you must have learned something. Go on other threads that ask the same stuff you have already learned and help those members... bammm 50 posts!

[unselfishfan]

What irony.
Take your own medicine.
Your first 6 paragraphs could easily
have made their points in one sentence each.
The rest of it was well worth the read.
Welcome to BHW...

[akiaki]

at xboxps3wow Thanks, good tip!

at unselfishfan Haha! Verbosity is perhaps my weakness. Thanks for the welcome and I'll try to be more succinct next time!

(can't use the at sign due to filters I guess...)

[Monkehx]

I was on the same boat when I joined months ago. Guess how many posts I have? Less than 100. The most frustrating is how much knowledge there is and choosing what you're going to do first. Stick with one thing, get good at it and you'll make money. I didn't know a thing about blackhat, honestly you remind me of myself. Your thread is really you being frustrated because of all the information being given out but with little support. You'll learn, it's really hard to get people to help you without an incentive. That's just the way things work around here. Sometimes, by creating these threads, you'll find a chartible person that's willing to help you out. Count me in. Give me a PM and I'll shoot you some ideas and support. But always remember rule #1. Internet people are impatient.

[unselfishfan]

Verbosity is perhaps my weakness. Thanks for the welcome and I'll try to be more succinct next time!

That's the spirit! Enjoy the ride!
Succinct, yes. But don't curb your
enthusiasm. You got STYLE... love it.

[Subject]

any short review on the first post?
Thanks..

[beeHWfan]

I don't know about anybody else but to me this looks like another useless post about useless posts.

Honestly bro, you just got here and already you write such a long thread about what? About useless posts?

Dude i can't even waste my time to read your whole post.

You are part of the problem you describe.

Now we have another post we have to sift through to find the real gems.

If you are trying to participate and be a valuable part of BHW i think u are starting off wrong. Peace.

[akiaki]

I was on the same boat when I joined months ago. Guess how many posts I have? Less than 100. The most frustrating is how much knowledge there is and choosing what you're going to do first. Stick with one thing, get good at it and you'll make money. I didn't know a thing about blackhat, honestly you remind me of myself. Your thread is really you being frustrated because of all the information being given out but with little support. You'll learn, it's really hard to get people to help you without an incentive. That's just the way things work around here. Sometimes, by creating these threads, you'll find a chartible person that's willing to help you out. Count me in. Give me a PM and I'll shoot you some ideas and support. But always remember rule #1. Internet people are impatient.

Hey, thanks a LOT! No PM for me yet, but I'll get there some day. Yeah, the 'net encourages instant gratification and all that, but there are good patient people too, and I think BHW probably has a few including yourself.

It's definitely information overload, which is hard to deal with, but OTOH, it's important to me not to go into things blind and make all the mistakes that I CAN avoid if I take the advice on BHW to heart.

Anyhow, thanks for the nice response. Glad to know I'm not alone on my journey. Patience and hard work, and I'll be making money come next year, right? ;-)

[akiaki]

any short review on the first post?
Thanks..

I guess the TL;DR version is that it's my opinion after spending significant amounts of time reading BHW that the policy that requires newbs to post 50 times before they get certain privileges (which is a very reasonable policy in a lot of ways and based on a very real need) also hurts BHW's quality because you end up with so many threads with posts that don't contribute anything to the conversation.

And since some people seem inclined to take any criticism of this site that they love as some sort of (personal?) attack, let me just stress that my input is intended as constructive feedback for a site that is clearly awesome. None of this means I think BHW is anything but awesome!

[akiaki]

I don't know about anybody else but to me this looks like another useless post about useless posts.

Honestly bro, you just got here and already you write such a long thread about what? About useless posts?

Dude i can't even waste my time to read your whole post.

You are part of the problem you describe.

Now we have another post we have to sift through to find the real gems.

If you are trying to participate and be a valuable part of BHW i think u are starting off wrong. Peace.

Dude, chill. Just because my post was too long for you to read doesn't mean you should be so hostile. My post DOES carry meaning - it DOES make a point, actually, in clear contrast to the endless ones that just say things like "cool, dude" or whatever. If you cannot see that simple difference then don't take it out on me.

This thread is on-topic in a forum for feedback about the website and suggests that its policies could potentially be changed or tweaked. I understand that any such changes may be difficult or impossible since they may lead to other much worse problems, but I'm just providing my feedback after weeks of reading a LOT of threads here.

I think you're taking things a little too personally and may be missing the point because you don't want to take the time to read all my text. If not, fine, but don't bash me because of your inclinations.

[cool0403]

Haha. Yes indeed, you do see a lot of that here, as anywhere else on the net.... and it is frustrating. But more than mis-argued points, I'm trying to point out that there are too many posts that don't even attempt to make any point at all just to garner enough posts....

Anyway, thanks for the good laugh. :-)

Its true the best knowledge i ve gained in my IM years is through my close network of peers i talk on the daily, since we all discuss and talk about IM we don't have to worry about secret.

Pm me for your aim and i ll take a look at what might be causing the problem, make sure you have some sort of http analyzer so i can see your http requests.

[heartydreamer]

I guess the TL;DR version is that it's my opinion after spending significant amounts of time reading BHW that the policy that requires newbs to post 50 times before they get certain privileges (which is a very reasonable policy in a lot of ways and based on a very real need) also hurts BHW's quality because you end up with so many threads with posts that don't contribute anything to the conversation.

And since some people seem inclined to take any criticism of this site that they love as some sort of (personal?) attack, let me just stress that my input is intended as constructive feedback for a site that is clearly awesome. None of this means I think BHW is anything but awesome!

kinda good go.. I have been around for 3 years , mm i guess so. I have very few posts coz, I like the way things go here so I just read. I did not implement most of them and have no way of adding in value to the already present content here (atleast as of now)

When I do not have anything to contribute, I should be happy that I atleast got a chance to lean and stop feeling that my access is limited. That does not mean you spam. May be am the only lazy ass too lazy to even post.

But I dont like posting stuff that just takes the disc space on BHW servers and nothing else.

So dude, ultimately what do you want to say? I have seen that you said there are many threads that do not have a specific reason or something like that -- assume, you meant they are not tight enough on any topic and just end without a value to the board.
So how tight do you think yours is? As someone pointed above, you are part of the same problem you are complaining about.

hope I made sense Now dont fight with me. I just gave you my opinion.

One thing though THERE IS MORE GOOD HERE THAN BAD and plz accept that.

[GreyWolf]

When I first found BHW I was also just wanting to read and learn. It's been awhile since I joined, but I think the only reason I actually set up an account was because some things (searches for example. I'm big on searching. lol) don't work unless your a member. The posting restrictions weren't as hard back then, but even so I didn't really feel any need to make any posts for the first 5 or 6 months I was here (other than in the bst for some basic services I ordered).

When I did start posting it was usually just to ask a follow up question in someones thread, or if I noticed someone asking a question that showed they misunderstood or were confused about something basic. I never really felt that I had a whole lot to offer anyone here, but I was able to offer help to some of those people by giving explanations that they could understand. I've also been online for a looong time (I was dialing into BBSes for years until the Internet became commonly available) and so was able to explain some basic netiquette guidelines to a lot of new members that were a bit clueless about that.

Once I started making a few posts and found that not only was noone coming in to correct me or call me an idiot or anything, some of my explanations actually helped clear up some confusion for those people who's questions I was answering. So whenever I saw someone asking questions about things that I was interested in, I'd share what little information I could to help answer their questions. Within a couple months I was up to 50 posts and decided that I'd like to join the Jr.VIP. So I started to actually look for posts I knew something about. A lot of new people ask some fairly simple questions, so it isn't that hard to offer some help. If you know even a little about html, php, wordpress, or anything else about building or troubleshooting websites you'll find many questions you can answer in no time. Same thing with adsense, clickbank, seo, even just general marketing you'll find there's many total newbies that don't understand even the basics. As long as they're asking a somewhat specific question, you'll be amazed at how easy it is to help them sometimes.

Soon I was at 100 posts so I could join the Jr.VIP forum. Funny thing that happened along the way though is I got used to posting, and some of my posts were actually fairly well appreciated. I don't make so many posts anymore, or at least not as many really helpful ones as I used to. That's partly because I've shared most of what I can already and after awhile you get tired of writing the same thing over and over. lol.

So anyway, (I get a little verbose sometimes as well), my advice is don't make the short pointless ataboy" or "that's stupid" posts, those don't add anything to the forum and get annoying after a while for anyone reading the threads. Instead find threads that you can participate in. You don't always have to have additional knowledge to give, sometimes just asking a question to get a point clarified can be very helpful. Not just for yourself, but for everyone else reading the thread as well. And even if you think you don't know a lot, I'll bet you see posts sometimes where someone asks something and you think "wow, how can anyone not know that?". The fact is some people really don't "know that" and so you can help them out by explaining it in a way you thing they might understand.

If you do that then you'll find that even when you're just asking a question you're posts actually are contributing to the threads you participate in. When you actually do answer a question for someone else (even if it's just a simple question), you'll find it actually help you clarify things in your own mind so you end up with an even better understanding than you already had.

Well, I hope that somewhat addressed what you were bringing up in your first post. Hope that helps some.

[akiaki]

kinda good go.. I have been around for 3 years , mm i guess so. I have very few posts coz, I like the way things go here so I just read. I did not implement most of them and have no way of adding in value to the already present content here (atleast as of now)

When I do not have anything to contribute, I should be happy that I atleast got a chance to lean and stop feeling that my access is limited. That does not mean you spam. May be am the only lazy a** too lazy to even post.

But I dont like posting stuff that just takes the disc space on BHW servers and nothing else.

Cool, that's how I feel too

So dude, ultimately what do you want to say?

Not sure how many more ways I can say it. Just re-read my posts above more carefully. It's constructive criticism for the BHW mods/community.

I have seen that you said there are many threads that do not have a specific reason or something like that -- assume, you meant they are not tight enough on any topic and just end without a value to the board.

No offense, but you should actually read what you are replying to. I said there are too many *posts* that don't add to the conversation and pollute the many excellent threads on BHW.

So how tight do you think yours is? As someone pointed above, you are part of the same problem you are complaining about.

Um, wha? My creating this thread is in no way similar to posting a "cool, dude" response on other peoples' threads. Think, people.

hope I made sense Now dont fight with me. I just gave you my opinion.

I hope you don't think I'm fighting with you, but c'mon, please understand what you're replying to before making claims like you have.

One thing though THERE IS MORE GOOD HERE THAN BAD and plz accept that.

I agree on a general basis, otherwise BHW wouldn't be worth my time. But it occurs to me that if you counted the number of good posts and the number of meaningless posts that people use to jack their post count, the numbers would not look good.

[akiaki]

<snipped, seemed to be triggering some part of the newb filter, sorry>

Thanks a lot for your willingness to help me out! Much appreciated, but I don't think there's any problem for me or my traffic.

Cheers!

[Monkehx]

That could've been 6 seperate posts right there but you chose to quote instead. What we have here is an outstanding BHW member. Add me on skype. DigitalfuckthehatersGangstor

Remove fuckthehaters.

[heavenInside]

OP has a point that I agree with.
But still I think " Perfection lies in imperfection".

[GreyWolf]

But it occurs to me that if you counted the number of good posts and the number of meaningless posts that people use to jack their post count, the numbers would not look good.

Good point.

Unfortunately that's true especially for many new members trying to get their first 15 posts, and to a lesser extent with some members trying to get the first 100 so they can join the Jr.VIP forum.

I can tell you this though it doesn't have to be that way. As I said, my first 100 posts there were very few meaningless posts. It really doesn't take that much effort to make a worthwhile post, and especially when I was still new here and unknown I didn't want to embarass myself by making a post that wasn't well thought out.

I've made in excess of 1500 posts here ( a fair amount of them are even worth reading, at least in the thread they were intended for). If someone can't make just 15 posts that have something worthwhile to say, either a decent question about a topic or add a bit of personal knowledge then they probably will have a tough time in this business anyway. New members should think of it as part of there training. A first taste of what's required to create good content for whatever marketing method they'll ultimately be giving a try.

[akiaki]

So anyway, (I get a little verbose sometimes as well), my advice is don't make the short pointless ataboy" or "that's stupid" posts, those don't add anything to the forum and get annoying after a while for anyone reading the threads. Instead find threads that you can participate in. You don't always have to have additional knowledge to give, sometimes just asking a question to get a point clarified can be very helpful. Not just for yourself, but for everyone else reading the thread as well. And even if you think you don't know a lot, I'll bet you see posts sometimes where someone asks something and you think "wow, how can anyone not know that?". The fact is some people really don't "know that" and so you can help them out by explaining it in a way you thing they might understand.

If you do that then you'll find that even when you're just asking a question you're posts actually are contributing to the threads you participate in. When you actually do answer a question for someone else (even if it's just a simple question), you'll find it actually help you clarify things in your own mind so you end up with an even better understanding than you already had.

Well, I hope that somewhat addressed what you were bringing up in your first post. Hope that helps some.

Cool, thanks for the very thoughtful reply and great advice. I think you're right, eventually I probably will (or already do) have some small amount of knowledge I can offer people, and I'll definitely keep that in mind going forward and hope to contribute positively to the community.

But the other point of this thread is to bemoan that most newbies aren't going to be as conscientious as that and are just going to stuff otherwise excellent threads with junk posts. Might be just the nature of the beast, but then again, some smart people might have some good ideas for ways to tweak the rules to help fix that problem.

Anyhow, thanks again!!!

[IamNRE]

Short version:

Op is happy about the coumminity and thinks it kicks ass.

But his only issue are the restrictions on newbies from posting in certain places, and he argues that its because of these restrictions that noobs go and post useless none sense in certain area just to get their posts up. And ends the post with a Thanks again.

---------------------------------------------


I would to agree with the OP, its hard to find useful post coz of all the none sense posts.

Maybe Mods should open a new newbie section where they can do as they like, but it notes that its for people with low posts only (kinda like a Jr.Vip for newbies), so they can only post in there and wont be able to post in other parts of the site until they reach like 100 posts and 20 reps or something.

[GreyWolf]

But the other point of this thread is to bemoan that most newbies aren't going to be as conscientious as that and are just going to stuff otherwise excellent threads with junk posts. Might be just the nature of the beast, but then again, some smart people might have some good ideas for ways to tweak the rules to help fix that problem

Well the problem with rules is that some people tend not to bother learning them. There's already a rule against it, and sometimes when people are too annoying with it they'll even get themselves banned for violating that rule before they make there first 15 posts. lol.

There's even a sticky post in this suggestions and feedback forum that I wrote about a year ago or so that addresses this issue along with a few others. I used to just paste the link to it in newbies threads when I saw them making posts that the thread addressed. I haven't looked at it in awhile but it's probably still a good read. It's called Guide for New Members or something like that. Just look at the sticky threads and you'll find it.

Other than that there isn't much that can be done except to look at the members other posts and if you see that they are just inflating there post count with nothing but stupid posts like that, use the report button on their post.

[akiaki]

I would to agree with the OP, its hard to find useful post coz of all the none sense posts.

Maybe Mods should open a new newbie section where they can do as they like, but it notes that its for people with low posts only (kinda like a Jr.Vip for newbies), so they can only post in there and wont be able to post in other parts of the site until they reach like 100 posts and 20 reps or something.

Nice idea. My idea was to restrict newbs to lounge-type areas, but you'd have to give them ability to get post counts there --- OTOH, maybe it could be all about rep count in the lounge (or similar place) at first instead of post count.

Something like that could work, but in the end may be more restrictive than the mods/owners want to get.

Anyhow, thanks not just here, but I've seen, read and learned from your other posts!

[euhero]

ataboy (pause) wait for my post to inflate. (nice)

[akiaki]

There we go.... ;-)

[blackmamber]

lol, great read isnt it - this thread

[heartydreamer]

That could've been 6 seperate posts right there but you chose to quote instead. What we have here is an outstanding BHW member. Add me on skype. DigitalfuckthehatersGangstor

Remove fuckthehaters.

Oh okay okay... chill.. I am not the hater. I was just telling him what I felt about his thread. That post was too big with too small a point. And I am not sure what he is suggesting, Is it a message for the noobs? No I dont think so. Is he asking mods to do something? No I dint find anything specific.
is he saying BHW is good? yes he is and I agree with that.
Is he supporting the noobs for posting useless stuff?? Oh No but I have no way of knowing what he means.
I just added my views on this topic and I am not flaming anyone, Not the OP atleast.

@OP chill and get the kicks man. DO LET US KNOW IF YOU HAVE A WAY TO SOLVE THIS GIGANTIC PROBLEM HERE ON BHW.

I was only mentioning on How TIGHT the post is.

[heartydreamer]

Well the problem with rules is that some people tend not to bother learning them. There's already a rule against it, and sometimes when people are too annoying with it they'll even get themselves banned for violating that rule before they make there first 15 posts. lol.

There's even a sticky post in this suggestions and feedback forum that I wrote about a year ago or so that addresses this issue along with a few others. I used to just paste the link to it in newbies threads when I saw them making posts that the thread addressed. I haven't looked at it in awhile but it's probably still a good read. It's called Guide for New Members or something like that. Just look at the sticky threads and you'll find it.

Other than that there isn't much that can be done except to look at the members other posts and if you see that they are just inflating there post count with nothing but stupid posts like that, use the report button on their post.

I do believe report button would be good way. 3 similar reports.. Boom Ban for a week or something like that would get the count of useless post down.

So with due thanks to OP, shall we start the massacre? Can we all agree to use the report button to fight the useless posts?

I am waiting for a mod to confirm if we can report useless posts with the report button.

[akiaki]

Oh okay okay... chill.. I am not the hater. I was just telling him what I felt about his thread. That post was too big with too small a point. And I am not sure what he is suggesting, Is it a message for the noobs? No I dont think so. Is he asking mods to do something? No I dint find anything specific.
is he saying BHW is good? yes he is and I agree with that.
Is he supporting the noobs for posting useless stuff?? Oh No but I have no way of knowing what he means.

Yes you do. The way to understand the point of this thread is to read it carefully. You missed my point (you freely admit), yet you reply to it with some opinion that is thus misinformed? C'mon.

You're clearly not flaming me, and for that I really appreciate your restraint, since others have not been so kind. So let me be clear that I do not intend to flame you and hope we can be friends.

If you tend toward having less patience to read what I wrote, please read the summary I made or the one IamNRE made. The point is not difficult to understand. Then you can reply more intelligently instead of blaming me for doing something I'm not even doing.

And yes, there are some specific suggestions that have been made. You yourself added one specific suggestion, and I applaud that. The only problem with it (reporting useless posts) that I can see is that it would take days, months, years to report as many useless "ataboy" type posts. And the mods would be totally flooded.

Maybe a slashdot-type ranking system could be VERY useful here, where we could all vote up or down people's posts, then you could set your interface to only show posts that are reasonably ranked. That's probably the best possible solution, especially if we still have the problem that noobs have to post 50 times to gain certain privileges.

[akiaki]

There's even a sticky post in this suggestions and feedback forum that I wrote about a year ago or so that addresses this issue along with a few others. I used to just paste the link to it in newbies threads when I saw them making posts that the thread addressed. I haven't looked at it in awhile but it's probably still a good read. It's called Guide for New Members or something like that. Just look at the sticky threads and you'll find it.

Hey GreyWolf, I found that thread and it was awesome. Seriously. But I think the biggest problem with it is that new users are going to be the minority of people reading it! It's becoming abundantly clear to me that BHW, like the rest of the net, is full of ADD types who just want instant gratification and aren't really willing to put in the hard work. (Ultimately, this probably bodes well for those of us who have patience and willingness to put in the hours, since we'll probably end up with the better sites and thus more profit, but I digress.)

So back on point, I think your introductory thread is full of helpful information, but the million dollar question is how to get noobs to read it and (the 10 million dollar question) how to get noobs to take it to heart. I don't see any easy answers unfortunately.

But from one of the few people who has read your stuff, a hearty thanks!

[GreyWolf]

Hey GreyWolf, I found that thread and it was awesome. Seriously. But I think the biggest problem with it is that new users are going to be the minority of people reading it!

Well, Yes and No about the new users being a minority of people reading it. While it's true that the average newbie might not find that thread for awhile if ever, most newbie members don't need it anyway. In fact the members that take the time to look for and find such a thread on there own, are unlikely to be making the mistakes it explains how to avoid. Like I've said many times everyone was a newbie once, but not everyone was a noob. The purpose of that thread was to have a place to direct those "noob" type members that might need to read it.

I actually wrote that before I even became a Jr.VIP. I think I only had about 50 or 60 posts of my own here at the time. I was just another member being frustrated at the huge influx of people joining and immediately posting "Help me, I need to make $2000 by next thursday" type threads. Moderation was understaffed at the time for dealing with the influx of new members. There were so many of those type posts, they were regularly pushing the actual good threads off the bhw home page before you had a chance to see them.

I learned netiquette back in the days of usenet, and so would chime in on those threads (along with a few other members) with a short explanation about how new users should spend a bit of time learning the 'lay of the land' (so to speak) before they start making posts that will get them flamed. Like I said, at the time there was a LOT of those threads being started and not enough mods to delete them fast enough.

If you've read many of my older threads (some of the newer ones too I guess) you know that I can be a little verbose in my posts. lol. So after a while I got tired of posting the same thing over and over so I wrote that thread with the intention of just posting the link in any "noob" threads and direct them to go read it before making any more posts.

So for the "noob" typess that really need to read that thread, they can be directed to it. That was the point of it being made a sticky thread. Not so much so for the newbie members that are smart enough to search around and learn whats acceptable. But rather so that regular members could find it easier when they need to copy the link into a "noob" type thread.

Just remember, every thread from a newbie asking a question isn't necessarily a "noob" type thread. A broadly general question like "how do I make money online" is a stupid question to ask on a forum devoted to that topic. The answer is simple, read the threads in the "money making" forum. But a specific question like "I've been trying such and such thing that I read about, could you please explain this part?" is a reasonable question and actually adds to the value of the forum.

So try not to be a dick about it, but feel free to post a link to that thread in any "noob" type "help me - tell me how to make money" threads, or even pm the link to any noobs engaged in post count inflation.

For the ones that needed it I used to just post a short message along the lines of,
"These type posts aren't acceptable on this forum.
(or This post is violating *whatever rule it was*.)
Before you make anymore posts or start any new threads you should go read this: Guide for New Members
and to keep from getting yourself in trouble you should go read this: Forum Rules"

It didn't stop them all, but it helped for a lot of 'em. lol

[akiaki]

Alright, fair enough. I'll keep that link in my back pocket. Thanks again!

Hoping the mods/owners catch my /. suggestion...

[dragon123]

I can understand where the OP is coming from. It can be frustrating reading a great thread and you have dozens of "thanks dude" or " great thread" pointless comments. But i found after time you get to know where the things are that are relevant to what you want to do. It doesnt help that the search facility is so vague on results at times as well.

[seo_wpn]

Hi,
I believe,this forum is much better than the rest of forums

[CoyoteAssassin]

BHW is like fine wine, the best improve with age.

Yeah.... I'm not so sure how many will agree with that...

BHW is great and has a lot of potential and its too bad that its growth is restricted.