I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

 
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I have to say, I love PayPal. Never had any problems with them, even though ...
  1. #1
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    Default I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I have to say, I love PayPal.

    Never had any problems with them, even though I have had many transactions.

    Today, I received two "disputes" from the same user to an amount totaling $21 USD.

    He outright lied, I told what really happened. And in two minutes, BAM! "Case Closed". In my favor

    This is how you win a dispute.
    1. They will most likely say some bull that's only two lines long.
    Now you give PayPal a freken' essay.

    2. They will most likely not be a "power user" which means they make a small amount of transactions and they do not have a business account which means PP does not get any "fees" from them.
    However, they do get lots of fees from you, because you have a BA and make many large transactions. Remind them of this, tell them that you have made many large tansactions and don't mind their fees, because they have terrific service.

    This is what PP sees

    Disputer -> regular account -> two lines of badly spelled dispute -> $0 profit for them.

    You -> business account -> Essay -> $$$$ profit for them.

    Which would you choose? Thants right

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    helloall,

    1. I think I did show you..
    2. The $21 isn't important, it's about not getting black marks on your account or being labeled as a scammer.

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    heiny is offline Regular Member
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I never won any of my disputes of someone claiming they never received a 1 gb memory card by mail since I didn't send it with registered mailing. I gave up on paypal and eBay after the days of getting frauded by 1/50 buyers.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    bullshit fuck paypal

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    heiny, never sold real products always digital, so wouldn't know there.

    mrunknown, if (or when) they fuck me over, I'll agree with you.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    you are so wrong. It doesn't matter at all what you say, let me break it down for you.

    INTANGIBLE GOODS:

    Buyer says non receipt or chargeback - you always lose because you cannot provide a tracking number. This is policy and in their terms of service.

    Buyer says significantly not as described - you always win, paypal does not consider an intangible or virtual delivery item capable of being defective.

    Trust me, I do enough transactions where I get 5+ disputes a day, these are their policies and they do not deviate from them.

    I'm Back

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by helloall View Post
    Buyer says non receipt or chargeback - you always lose because you can provide a tracking number. This is policy and in their terms of service.

    Buyer says significantly not as described - you always win, paypal does not consider an intangible or virtual delivery item capable of being defective.

    its not always this simple. Its different with every dispute
    Trust me it is this simple, there is no acceptable proof besides tracking info you can provide on non receipt or chargeback. I've done everything from e-mail correspondance on the verified e-mail which clearly showed they received the product to IP logs that showed the user accessing my thank you page and I have lost these 100% of the time. Paypal customer service actually told me to ship a cd and get tracking info just to have something to back me up.

    If they say significantly not as described and you escalate the claim on an intangible item the dispute will be automatically closed, not even a review - its done in seconds and in your favor.

    I have seriously been getting 5+ disputes a day for almost two years now, this is how it works.

    I'm Back

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I had both of them.

    1. His first one was for "non receipt" of domain name, however, you can go to his domain name and see he is using it, so he lost.

    2. The second was for "significantly not as described" of hosting. However, it is obviously working well enough for him to use it so he lost.

    So it isn't always so simple.
    Last edited by shade; 03-30-2009 at 04:37 AM.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I won all disputes in which I could provide tracking number.
    I ones had a customer writing to me of non-receiving item that was worth 899 bucks. Even though I could see the signature and the postal service had the address as given the buyer continuously denied to have received it and wanted to know how to dispute with the postal service (knowing they would lose a paypal dispute by a mile)...I simply ignored their attempt to hustle and fraud the postal service. Some people out there deserves to get beaten, pick pocketed and cardscammed...The circle becomes whole for some and for all those who frauded me for MY hard-earned money, I hope they get driven over by a truck

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Reload this Page I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    i hope next week or next month not change to F*CK paypal lol

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I rather lose a dispute of $21 than PayPal Fees every transaction.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    jasonac2, yeah, they are really annoying. That's my 82 cents you son of a bi*ch

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I just sent a $250 jpg ring to the us that I sold on ebay and the guy signed for the package then filed a dispute saying package was not sealed and was empty.

    Trying to get some info from the post office as I sent it insured, but they are saying that because he signed for it the insurance is not valid. Only valid if he refused to sign or package not received.

    Paypal are taking their time to make a decision, but looks like they are going in his favour.

    Lot of money to loose out on.

    Might not send abroad anymore, although NEVER had this before and always send abroad

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    When people scam you out of $50 for something stupid it really doesn't bother me so much as it was my fault.

    However, when then get something of mine banned for a few measly dollars it really pisses me off. They could make more at mcdonalds.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    xxkixx: sorry to hear. Thats the name of the game with f'ing PayPal. It's like playing russian roulette with them - just there is more than a bullet in the gun when you put it to the head.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I have never lost a Paypal dispute and I have had over 10,000 Paypal transactions. When I have had a dispute, I always get my money back. I don't write an essay either.

    How do I do this? For one I sell legit shit. I don't scam or sell replicas. I only send to confirmed addresses. I put tracking on everything I ship with signature confirmation.

    Also, I follow all the Seller Protection rules below:


    To be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection:

    * The transaction must be marked eligible or partially eligible for Seller Protection on the Transaction Details page.
    * The item must be shipped within 7 calendar days of receiving payment to the shipping address on the Transaction Details page, and in accordance with our shipping requirements.
    * In the event a buyer files a claim, you need to respond to our request for documents and other information in a timely manner.
    * The item must be a physical, tangible good that can be shipped.
    * Your primary residence, as listed in your PayPal account, must be in the United States.

    What's not covered

    * Items picked up locally or delivered in person
    * Services, intangible items, and digital goods
    * Claims and chargebacks where the buyer says that the shipped item is significantly not as described


    Follow the Paypal rules, make sure you can prove your shipping and you should be fairly safe.

    Everyone bitches about Paypal and yes their service sucks but it is something you have to learn to live with because they are really the only game in town and if you follow their rules, it makes it much more bearable.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by shade View Post
    helloall,

    1. I think I did show you..
    2. The $21 isn't important, it's about not getting black marks on your account or being labeled as a scammer.
    wow, 21 dollars...

    add a few 00s and a few more disputes to that number and your pretty much fked....

    all of my disputes were settled amicably by me and my buyers...but PP (yes, pee pee) still closed my account

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by jazz99 View Post
    Everyone bitches about Paypal and yes their service sucks but it is something you have to learn to live with because they are really the only game in town and if you follow their rules, it makes it much more bearable.
    it's not true, they are not the only game in town, since they limited my account i've found that merchants accept all forms of payment like credit cards...

    see, PP may have been top shit 10 years ago, when you couldn't really buy stuff online with a debit card or credit card...but now almost everybody has a merchant account.

    the only thing PP is good for really is ebay.....

    as for sellers, if you look hard enough, you'll be able to find a better payment processor than paypal

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by jhn2001 View Post
    shade gimme your paypal id and i will prove you wrong ... I bet you wont win .Never Ever ,
    HAHAHA
    I wonder who is going to win?


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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    So sad but true... except with the plainly obvious abuse from a BA account.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Good luck in filling your disputes for digital products such as software and programs, paypal will slam you shut
    This member has been permanently banned from BHW.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Good luck in filling your disputes for digital products such as software and programs, paypal will slam you shut
    This member has been permanently banned from BHW.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I have been selling digital products through PayPal for going on 5 years now. Things started out rough with disputes and stolen accounts being used. I started improving my methods for verifying account ownership while trying not to inconvenience my customers too much.

    I highly recommend sending an email to the paying PayPal email address that requests confirmation of the buyer's billing address and a phone number when the payment is made with a credit card. That has helped me alot in getting problematic transactions below 1 in 500. I don't bother doing this when a payment is made from a PayPal account balance or eCheck. When they reply with the billing address and phone number, keep a record of the email and use a free phone directory lookup to check to see that the area code is in the same area as the billing address. While it is in no way airtight, it has been working quite well for me. A thief has to make a choice when you ask for a phone number; either not reply to the email, supply a false number that they cannot answer, or provide their actual phone number that typically will not match the area. I never actually call the number, I just use it as a deterrent, but the thief doesn't know that and it has been very successful for me in weeding out stolen credit cards which make up the bulk of the bad transactions that come my way. For the billing address, I just make sure it matches the one listed under the payment receipt from PayPal.

    The other problem I had when I first started was customers claiming they never received the product or that the product they received was not as described. Since I was dealing in digital goods, I thought I was up a creek without a paddle with PayPal laughing as they watched me go over a waterfall. Eventually I put some money into my site after I saw it was really starting to make money and was worth the investment for an increased level of service to customers. Part of that money went to making a system that didn't just email out the product, but also provided access to the product through the website under the customer's website account. I also have a control panel that shows date/time of purchase and a list of the product made available to the customer at that time. While I did this originally for customer convenience, as it was amazing how many customers got upset when they couldn't find an email because it was filtered to spam or auto-deleted as a result of not following instructions to add the server email address to their address book, it ended up helping me win some disputes. When a dispute over a product not being as described or never being received came up, I had a cut and paste reply which stated that the product was made available to the customer and was currently available on the website under their user account. I included the date/time it was made available from my control panel, along with a link that both the customer and PayPal could use to access the product without having to login to the customer's account.

    Both of these things have greatly cut down on my losing disputes and I am currently on a 3 month streak of no lost disputes (a total of 24 filed) with around $11,000 in sales moving through the site in a single month (based on average '08 sales). I have lost money on 4 orders in the past 3 months to stolen PayPal account or credit card use, but I am more than happy with my success to failure ratio and the small losses when compared to total sales. I don't know how PayPal handles things but so far I believe that a combination of the above and always leaving professional looking and grammatically correct responses have lead to me being much happier with my results than I was a few years ago.

    I do suggest getting alternative payment methods, though not so much because PayPal is lacking, but because some customers are either put off by PayPal, confused by using their credit card on the PayPal website, or are in an area of the world where PayPal is not an option for them. Since I deal in digital goods and have customers from all over, having more than PayPal as a payment option is advantageous.

    For phone number lookups, just google "reverse white pages" and some options that should be free and simple to use. Remember, you are just looking for an area. Privately listed numbers should still have a provider with a city listed despite not having a name and exact address.

    I wanted to include a copy of the email that I send out for credit card payments via PayPal below but it contained urls to the PayPal website that I was too lazy to remove. Feel free to send me a private message if you do want to see a copy of the email that I send out. It is fairly basic but looks professional in my opinion and seems to get the job done. If a mod or someone else who can post URL's wouldn't mind reviewing the email and posting it so site members could just see it in a post instead of having to message me, I would appreciate it.

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  29. #24
    arthro is offline Regular Member
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Now how about if the reason of the buyer for dispute is that his account was accessed by unauthorized user? (or his account was hacked)

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I usually just say that the buyer has been in contact questioning a couple of things about the item after they have received it, if its a digital product, and that usually works for me
    Posted via Mobile Device

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by arthro View Post
    Now how about if the reason of the buyer for dispute is that his account was accessed by unauthorized user? (or his account was hacked)
    Never had that happen to me, but if it did, I would do one of two things.

    1. If it was under $1000 screw it, I don't care

    2. If it was over $1000 I would have PayPal give me the IP address of the "hacker" which is the wrong use by the way, the correct use would be "cracker".

    If PP refused, I would threaten to charge them as an accomplice. From there I would weed my way through the proxies (if they used them) because proxies must provide logs if someone was cracked.

    Then I would get their IP and reverse it finding where they lived. From here it could go three ways.

    1. It is their address and I sue them and/or go to their house and "persuade" them.

    2. It was someone else's IP accessed through an unsecured wireless network, in which case I would look for the Mac Address (which shows the shame on any network unless spoofed). I would track them through who purchased the machine with the Mac address, then I would do number 1.

    3. The Mac Address is spoofed in which case, I'm fucked. lol
    Last edited by shade; 03-30-2009 at 10:06 AM.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by gimme4free View Post
    I usually just say that the buyer has been in contact questioning a couple of things about the item after they have received it, if its a digital product, and that usually works for me
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Unless you're going to be like gimme and not care if they were hacked or not.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    good luck with that!! If you did find their ip i doubt their isp would give you their address. If i was going to screw someone on paypal id just do it from someone elses wifi.
    I havent used gaypal for a while but dont you see the buyers address when the transaction is made?

    Quote Originally Posted by shade View Post
    Never had that happen to me, but if it did, I would do one of two things.

    1. If it was under $1000 screw it, I don't care

    2. If it was over $1000 I would have PayPal give me the IP address of the "hacker" which is the wrong use by the way, the correct use would be "cracker".

    If PP refused, I would threaten to charge them as an accomplice. From there I would weed my way through the proxies (if they used them) because proxies must provide logs if someone was cracked.

    Then I would get their IP and reverse it finding where they lived. From here it could go three ways.

    1. It is their address and I sue them and/or go to their house and "persuade" them.

    2. It was someone else's IP accessed through an unsecured wireless network, in which case I would look for the Mac Address (which shows the shame on any network unless spoofed). I would track them through who purchased the machine with the Mac address, then I would do number 1.

    3. The Mac Address is spoofed in which case, I'm fucked. lol

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by spaceinvader View Post
    good luck with that!! If you did find their ip i doubt their isp would give you their address. If i was going to screw someone on paypal id just do it from someone elses wifi.
    I havent used gaypal for a while but dont you see the buyers address when the transaction is made?
    no, you dont.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Everyone loves PayPal until they screw you! It's eventually going to happen to everyone. When it happens to me, I just hope it isn't a big $$$ transaction.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkaLot View Post
    no, you dont.
    lol lurkalot, love your name.... member since 2007 with 10 posts, how apt

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    If you used someone else's wifi, you still have to spoof your mac address, otherwise you will be caught.

    Unless you didn't buy your laptop from a store or somewhere like tiger.

    If you bought it at a pawnshop you're still fked.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Yes, intangiable product will kill the seller...I lose my $ 145 balance because dispute from scammer at DP [ i lose my paypal and my website...] Be careful if u make a deal with a guy named Tempera at DP...

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    @dordori,

    The following is the code of your life...

    PHP Code:
    <?php
    if(doridori == "dropped on head when little") {
        
    next();
    }
    else {
            die();
    }
    function 
    next() {
         if(
    doridori == "beaten senseless by crack-addict mother") {
            
    next1();
         }
    }
    function 
    next1();
         echo 
    "fail"
    }
    ?>
    seriously, care to elaborate or just want to flame?
    Last edited by shade; 04-03-2009 at 12:32 AM.

  40. #35
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    As we can clearly see in this thread "buyers" and "customers" are unarguably defended and protected by PayPal. PP is NOT merchant-friendly in this area, and in this economic drivel you will be seeing a lot of crooks. If you're a merchant, PP is not for you. Tell PP to fuck off until they adapt merchant-friendly policies that will protect our monies and hard-earned merchandise. ePassporte is merchant-friendly, been with them for a month due to several recommendations. If you have to use PP, then spend your confidence in Plimus.
    Did he died?

  41. #36
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Quote Originally Posted by wowhaxor View Post
    Trust me it is this simple, there is no acceptable proof besides tracking info you can provide on non receipt or chargeback. I've done everything from e-mail correspondance on the verified e-mail which clearly showed they received the product to IP logs that showed the user accessing my thank you page and I have lost these 100% of the time. Paypal customer service actually told me to ship a cd and get tracking info just to have something to back me up.

    If they say significantly not as described and you escalate the claim on an intangible item the dispute will be automatically closed, not even a review - its done in seconds and in your favor.

    I have seriously been getting 5+ disputes a day for almost two years now, this is how it works.

    That's strange.... I have won 9 out of the last 10 claims. In the tracking number info; I put online transaction and follow it up with - Reveiws of my services on online forums and a log / password so the paypal rep can log into their account and check it.

  42. #37
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    lol this thread is funny. Must have some daypal employees here

  43. #38
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    I've been using the donation feature with paypal as of late. That way they cannot chargeback. Works like a charm.

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    AffGuy08 is offline Banned - see signature
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    What if you don't have a BA and just a premium account?
    This member has been permanently banned from BHW.

  45. #40
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    This doesn't work. I hate gaypal. I have business account since 2003 and I have never won a dispute and scammers always win.

    Gaypal sucks, they have no SSP.

  46. #41
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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    hahahaa some-one negative repped me for saying good things about paypal.

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Yeah? I bet you live in a basement with your mother. Have fun at Mcdonalds

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    WOw.....i dont know whatever people says for ur tip...but i really liked your tip...in am having a business account too..ur suggestion would surely help me in my future...becoz disputes are made to happen...

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Hey one of my friends, he sells Seedbox hosting. People buy using Paypal, they use for a month and then charge back the money. And in most case he loses the money. Anyway to get around this?

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    Default Re: I Love PayPal! -How To Win A Dispute

    Hiya,

    For me, my experience of paypal...

    If you sell legit stuff and send with proof of delivery/tracking, you're safe and disputes will fall on your side.

    If you can't prove your case then they suck, even though you're the one that pays paypal to exist, you're treated like a common thief.. you get limited ability to respond to the dispute and/or add further info as the dispute continues.

    Over here in the uk, I've had a few cases where I've had email proof that the delivery happened and paypal still refunded, so I ended up throwing trading standards at paypal and threatening the customer with a small claims court summons..
    The customer pays up, but it's always worth getting paypal wrapped over the knuckles, I hate their crap customer service towards the seller and their 'we're paypal, we're god' attitude.

    Then they send you a customer service survey.. like they read them.. lol

    Si

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