Personally I think Bitcoin has come to stay, and the price has been quite stable over the past 3-4 months which made me realize Bitcoin can probably become the most widely used commodity/currency online, especially when dealing with digital goods. Some of the features I like in Bitcoin are:

- No chargebacks

- No obscene fees by 2CheckOut and PayPal and other CC companies

- Anonymity! I dont need to let the whole world know I purchased a SEO package or sold for that matter

- The money are on my computer, in an encrypted folder, which is safer than any bank out there and their stupid legislation and rules

- More and more places accept Bitcoin - allowing me to purchase/sell stuff without having to constantly exchange back into $ and €

Who else here takes Bitcoin?

well ... bitcoin will be most probably the next worldwide e-currency I think when american's will start to use it . for now only very few stuffs to do with it saw several webhostings accept bt at payment , some other crappy ... still nothing major . Peoples ( sellers / and buyers ) are scared about changes usually and everyone loves monopoly money from paypal . Same happens with wmz/lr ... even if they are better ecurency's than ever will be pp ... they never will be used at large scale , why ? because of '' average joe shoppers ''

You are somewhat right, however the difference between Bitcoin and Liberty Reserve is huge. Its easier to exchange into Bitcoin because of the exchange services from www.mtgox.com and not just different exchangers.

Lets just all hope Bitcoin catches on some more, it would benefit us all with the flexibility of it.

it's pretty much unknown here in aus

Originally Posted by celticwoman

it's pretty much unknown here in aus

yeah, i hadn't heard of it until this thread :P

Wow really? Its been all over the news for the past 9 months or so. Its certainly the most revolutionary payment instrument that there is out there, and finally a way to people and get paid without having to abide by Visa and Mastercard and PayPal rules all the time.

It will open up the world for more business!

Don't get too excited As with any virtual currency, it needs widespread adoption to gain big traction, and that adoption is nowhere near the horizon for the time being.

Are bitcoins subject to inflation and deflation?

And speculation. Lots of ups and downs as the market is still infant. Deflation is built in the system, as the supply is forever limited.

I dont trust bitcoin.

For all we know, the guy who created it, has a backdoor or a bunch of bitcoins to himself, and when this shit blows up big time, he can cash out and crash the whole Bitcoin currency.

It is still on a very initial fase, most of the people who use it is mostly due to legalaty issues...
Some months ago someone hacked into one website where you could buy bitcoins completely fucking the currencies and devaluating the bitcoins and is that sort of stuff that keeps people away from that system.
Though I'm sure that in the future it will be widely used due to it's many advantages, but we'll still have to wait for that.
Cheers!

Originally Posted by Patel

I dont trust bitcoin.

For all we know, the guy who created it, has a backdoor or a bunch of bitcoins to himself, and when this shit blows up big time, he can cash out and crash the whole Bitcoin currency.

It 's open source and peer reviewed... The chances someone is "printing money" with Paypal, Liberty Reserve et al is much much much more real.

I take bitcoin on my .onion domain. I wouldn't say the value is very steady for the past 3-4 months though, a month and a half ago it was around $3 for 1 BTC, today about $5.6.

I like the idea of bitcoin, I hope it does catch on better. I think the hardest part for new people is figuring out how to get the BTC. Can't buy them with CC or PP, because of chargebacks.

Originally Posted by jazzc

It 's open source and peer reviewed... The chances someone is "printing money" with Paypal, Liberty Reserve et al is much much much more real.

I see. Then again, I really dont know too much about it. I played with it a little but it didn't really cling to me.

can any one explain if bitcoin is a payment processor.

if yes which other sites accepts bitcoin for their products.

Bitcoin is NOT a payment processor, Bitcoin is a currency/commodity that is purely Peer 2 Peer based. Thus it is not issued nor controlled by any government and thus it cannot be shut down, removed or otherwise get blocked from existence.

There is a very good merchant service that allows you to setup Bitcoin payments for your products in line with what you are used to on credit cards and debit cards online. Check them out here: https://bit-pay.com/

I sure hope more and more of you guys would start accepting Bitcoin as well as paying in Bitcoin. It just would make it all easier for us in the end. All we need is adoption and we have all the sudden cut out ALL banks and ALL payment processors. And the beauty is that nobody can freeze your account(s) for whatever retarded reason they usually come up with.

Originally Posted by LotteryBond

There is a very good merchant service that allows you to setup Bitcoin payments for your products in line with what you are used to on credit cards and debit cards online. Check them out here: https://bit-pay.com/

They charge? I just use bitcoinevolution.com, you get a buy it now button, and when the user clicks it they get a BTC address to send to. It's free, but it doesn't have any integration, you have to load a bunch of addresses. The good part though is when someone pays, it goes straight to your own wallet with no middle man.

Thanks for sharing! Didnt know that

You can't make it rain with bitcoins. I really dont the attraction in it,other then a way to calm your paranoia.

Originally Posted by Roparadise

You can't make it rain with bitcoins. I really dont the attraction in it,other then a way to calm your paranoia.

I 'm really amazed you don't see the attraction in it, with all your tax/offshore threads/posts

Originally Posted by jazzc

I 'm really amazed you don't see the attraction in it, with all your tax/offshore threads/posts

There's a huge difference tax evasion and tax planning. People will say that bitcoins are exempt from taxes but its total BS. And they will claim that its untraceable which is also BS.

Originally Posted by Roparadise

There's a huge difference tax evasion and tax planning. People will say that bitcoins are exempt from taxes but its total BS. And they will claim that its untraceable which is also BS.

Just a quick correction here.

It is NOT untraceable, BUT it CAN be untraceable by utilizing some of the services online to flush your Bitcoin through.

And please, not one of those low paid under educated tax officials in any country has any idea what Bitcoin is, how it works and why people would ever use such to replace the national currency.

Bitcoin is the next generation money and probably wont be adopted before next generation grows up and starts getting control of things in this world. As long as our world is predominantly run by people of 45+ that were all born before a computer existed dont expect it to become anything big.

But also dont expect people to really give a note of Bitcoin, especially in tax services as they would probably see it as a big fat joke after you explain to them what its functionality and properties are.

Originally Posted by Roparadise

You can't make it rain with bitcoins. I really dont the attraction in it,other then a way to calm your paranoia.

Originally Posted by Roparadise

There's a huge difference tax evasion and tax planning. People will say that bitcoins are exempt from taxes but its total BS. And they will claim that its untraceable which is also BS.

It's pretty easy to follow with blockexplorer and such, but you can obfuscate the coins by shifting from wallet to wallet easy enough. Then after mixing, cash out to an anonymous debit card. Not good for huge amounts of funds, but the ATM limit on those cards is $200 a day, so that's a lot for many people.

Originally Posted by LotteryBond

Just a quick correction here.

It is NOT untraceable, BUT it CAN be untraceable by utilizing some of the services online to flush your Bitcoin through.

And please, not one of those low paid under educated tax officials in any country has any idea what Bitcoin is, how it works and why people would ever use such to replace the national currency.

Bitcoin is the next generation money and probably wont be adopted before next generation grows up and starts getting control of things in this world. As long as our world is predominantly run by people of 45+ that were all born before a computer existed dont expect it to become anything big.

But also dont expect people to really give a note of Bitcoin, especially in tax services as they would probably see it as a big fat joke after you explain to them what its functionality and properties are.

You are so naive to believe that IRS agents are so stupid when it comes to investigating money laundering and tax evasion claims though the use of electronic means.

hold your horses cowboys ... bitcoint / lr / wmz / e-gold and virtually any e-currency ever existed there wasn't made with the goal of tax evasion / tax fraud LOL . Thing are pretty simple if sellers first of all will start accept alternative payment methods there will be always buyers ready to spend their fkin moneys . ( let me to give you one example just couple of days ago I asked one of my services providers if he can take an alternative payment method for hes services I wanted to get like 10-20 packages of hes shits - I was turned down and he wanna take only monopoly moneys on gaypal or fkinmonebookers LOL - like 5-6 years ago none heard about moneybookers and none of you fkers used this shit to take your payments ! only gambling sites used them - now most of IM related products take it - of course I didn't spent the moneys and their are still sitting into my damn account, and I still need the damn things to be done ... the seller lost hes fkin sales I lost the chance to get that shit done ) . Short long story , first of all it's about the sellers to '' trust '' those alternative payment methods , second it's about the buyers on how e-curency works . Education means loads on this , take a look up someone even didn't know about bitcoins until he didn't read there LOL ... and this shit it's there since quite some time . One of high disadvantage for e-curency's it's non-refundable transaction over there ! So you like a seller you will not have anymore dirty fuckers who will chargeback your transaction after they hit the fckin buy button - the ricks is with shitty products where honest buyers will be ripped off by scumbags who sell any crap over there but ... that's the life lol .

Why on earth do you think that the only use of virtual currency is to avoid taxes? You could pay your taxes and move your assets in a virtual currency. Perfectly legal. The benefits are also obvious I believe...

Originally Posted by jazzc

Why on earth do you think that the only use of virtual currency is to avoid taxes? You could pay your taxes and move your assets in a virtual currency. Perfectly legal. The benefits are also obvious I believe...

I've heard alot of people on other sites say that since bitcoins are not a "real" currency like the euro or usd, you don't have to pay taxes when you earn bitcoins.

well with virtual currency's like alternative cash-flow at least you can try to keep some peanuts outside of the uncle sam attention lol . If you are enough retard to sell marijuana or cocaine for bitcoins/lr then you deserve feds attention at full ! . But for general use ( like buying / selling shits over internet ) I think e-currency's are better than monopoly moneys from gaypal . LOL

Originally Posted by Roparadise

I've heard alot of people on other sites say that since bitcoins are not a "real" currency like the euro or usd, you don't have to pay taxes when you earn bitcoins.

you must be plain retard to tell yourself to the taxman '' hey I got 10K on bitcoin / lr account from selling links on bhw - take your share sir I wanna pay my taxes ''

I just think its a matter of time before Bitcoin is getting high acceptance. I mean look at this url: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

If that is not a record for accepting digital currency I dont what it is. And this is growing and growing as we speak. Personally I prefer and would probably push to trade in Bitcoin as I really want to see GayPal die.

Originally Posted by LotteryBond

I just think its a matter of time before Bitcoin is getting high acceptance. I mean look at this url: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

If that is not a record for accepting digital currency I dont what it is. And this is growing and growing as we speak. Personally I prefer and would probably push to trade in Bitcoin as I really want to see GayPal die.

Roughly 1200 sites/businesses. Not bad.

Also, remember that you can hire assassins and buy any kind of drug imaginable with bitcoin.

Not bad at all.

still worthless to mention I think but you guys will not understand a thing '' gaypal '' will never die most probably , first because they are enough big to keep their shit up and running for far far long time , second because it's good for '' average buyers '' - hordes of american sweet dollars to move around. Virtually there will not be any e-currency viable for true e-commerce support without the '' blessing '' from the us government . First of all because americans have no trust at all in anything outside of their borders [ and they will not keep their moneys elsewhere ! ] ; and of course there is no business online if you aren't targeting american buyers LOL . Only one e-currency was there with huge chances to success but unfortunately was taken down few years ago by feds ( the e-gold story ) .

Originally Posted by keinehabe

still worthless to mention I think but you guys will not understand a thing '' gaypal '' will never die most probably , first because they are enough big to keep their shit up and running for far far long time , second because it's good for '' average buyers '' - hordes of american sweet dollars to move around. Virtually there will not be any e-currency viable for true e-commerce support without the '' blessing '' from the us government . First of all because americans have no trust at all in anything outside of their borders [ and they will not keep their moneys elsewhere ! ] ; and of course there is no business online if you aren't targeting american buyers LOL . Only one e-currency was there with huge chances to success but unfortunately was taken down few years ago by feds ( the e-gold story ) .

Give it a few years and Bitcoin will replace PayPal. Whats missing at the moment is a convenient way to exchange USD to Bitcoin (and vise versa) - i.e.a link between the real world and the virtual one. Once that hole is closed the currency will become much more widespread.

At some point credit card companies will feel the potential and do their move against banks. And if they don't.. someone else will.

Originally Posted by lancis

Give it a few years and Bitcoin will replace PayPal. Whats missing at the moment is a convenient way to exchange USD to Bitcoin (and vise versa) - i.e.a link between the real world and the virtual one. Once that hole is closed the currency will become much more widespread.

At some point credit card companies will feel the potential and do their move against banks. And if they don't.. someone else will.

dude takes less than 10 minutes most probably to exchange any real world currency for any e-currency ! the exchanging services even if they aren't allowed there on bhw exist and peoples around the world can use them with ease . Thing is NEVER you will find anyone enough crazy to exchange instant monopoly moneys from gaypal with non reversible e-currency like lr / bitcoint / wmz / perfectmoney and so on ... Things are simple to understand on this it's a huge difference between those two concepts ! And the success of gaypal it's based in part from this '' bug/feature '' general acceptance of the service + advertising ... Trust me will be worthless for any of the e-currency sites to aggressively promote their business like paypal do 10+ years and they still do since the hordes of low life buyers will be afraid to put their moneys aboard ( even if they manage to do that uncle sam will find a way to force them to not do this LOL like the story with UIGEA ).

Originally Posted by keinehabe

dude takes less than 10 minutes most probably to exchange any real world currency for any e-currency ! the exchanging services even if they aren't allowed there on bhw exist and peoples around the world can use them with ease . Thing is NEVER you will find anyone enough crazy to exchange instant monopoly moneys from gaypal with non reversible e-currency like lr / bitcoint / wmz / perfectmoney and so on ... Things are simple to understand on this it's a huge difference between those two concepts ! And the success of gaypal it's based in part from this '' bug/feature '' general acceptance of the service + advertising ... Trust me will be worthless for any of the e-currency sites to aggressively promote their business like paypal do 10+ years and they still do since the hordes of low life buyers will be afraid to put their moneys aboard ( even if they manage to do that uncle sam will find a way to force them to not do this LOL like the story with UIGEA ).

It takes 10 minutes for you, and 5 minutes for me. But we are ahead of the crowd. For a commoner its far from easy to find an exchange. Mainly due to trust factor. You don't have to preach me about the nuances of currency exchange, I'm familiar with most of them. :-)

Hordes of low life buyers were afraid of computers once, today my grandma wrote her first Facebook status. You underestimate humans, mate. :-)

I watched some videos about this bitcoin thing a few months ago. How it all started, how it works. Basically they claim the value of bitcoin came from the electricty and processing power spent while creating bitcoins. So they created a currency out of computing power.

I have one question. Who's to stop someone else from creating another similar anonymous currency using computing power? There's always competition for everything on internet lol.

Then people start giving value to that currency too and start exchanging it? This doesn't make sense

It 's purely a matter of supply and demand.

USD, GBP, EUR,[...], Paypal, Liberty Reserve, Pecunix, [...], Gold, Silver etc. All different currencies/goods, valued and exchanged by people.

Originally Posted by jazzc

It 's purely a matter of supply and demand.

USD, GBP, EUR,[...], Paypal, Liberty Reserve, Pecunix, [...], Gold, Silver etc. All different currencies/goods, valued and exchanged by people.

You seem to be knowledgable on this. So, let me throw a couple more questions at you if you are up for it .

IMHO bitcoin can't be compared to any of the currencies above.

First USD, GBP, EUR,[...]: These are national currencies. these currencies are not limited to a small number of people when they started. But bitcoin was "created" and stays in the hands of a very few handful of people who are trying to push it into mainstream for possible riches.

Paypal, Liberty Reserve, Pecunix, [...]: These have never been and never will be real currencies. These exist because and depend on the national currencies like USD, GBP, EUR,[...]. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is trying to be a currency in its own right, independent of any national currencies.

Finally Gold, Silver etc.: I don't think bitcoin can ever be compared to these. These are tangible metals which are in limited supply on earth. People actually use them in jewelry. No, bitcoin can't be used for anything like that.

People say bitcoin works because there is a limit to how many bitcoins can be created. But get this - tomorrow someone comes up with a better way to represent anonymous currency and it's peer reviewed and accepted as a better solution. So people drop bitcoin and start creating the newcoin? I'm pretty sure people come up with better technologies all the time. Technology is always improving. Security doesn't work the same way as, say 10 years before. So I think bitcoin will die before it can be a mainstream currency.

I would be happy to hear from you or anyone why despite all these things bitcoin is here to stay

Well i had strongly planned to use bitcoins. except I have had just over 3 coins in mt.gox for like.. 2 weeks now. and still nothing sold.

@essares1

Your right, Bitcoin's current security is going to be vastly outdated within 10 years. By 2022,it is not unreasonable to imagine a computer with the following specs
(1) 10nm 3D cpu 4.0GHZ
(2) 10nm 3D GPU with 16GB of video ram
64GB of hybrid memory(which is 15x faster then DDR3)

That is alot of cracking power a criminal organization could get in their hands in 2022 for a mere $100,000,if it will cost somewhat the same as the current highend systems do today.

Originally Posted by LikeThisForam

I think the hardest part for new people is figuring out how to get the BTC. Can't buy them with CC or PP, because of chargebacks.

Boy, oh boy - it's not hard at all! You see, you'll just buy top-notch computers to fill up your house (better move to somewhere cold, so you may just reuse the heat from all those), then run the BitCoin software 24/7 "mining" money for you - and tadah! Maybe in ten years you'll get your "investment" back, although then it's time to upgrade everything since you can't mine fast enought for the newer revisions.

It's just an endless swamp of BS. Say what you say - I'll stick with my credit card until the end, since I just can't foresee the possibility of paying for my lunches, flights and hotel nights with a encrypted text file on my usb-key.

The thing with bitcoins is that there not backed up by anything. For example USD is backed up by gold. Bitcoins are not fully developed and they are shy'd away from because of The Silk Road and other sites like that. But I like how you can go bit-mining and make "money" that way and I also seen a video of someone buying gas with bitcoins so they are popular just shy'd away from.

The tax discussion here is irrelevant, as it presumes the use of Bitcoin is 1) subject to IRS jurisdiction, or 2) IRS has effective recourse, or flick-a-switch access to violate financial privacy. Both are shaky presumptions. Most people are not US citizens (being pro-tax honesty, I would add that means most Americans, once one understands the legal definition of US citizen or person), and so are not under US tax code authority to begin with for tax payment or reporting purposes. Bitcoins are backed up by the intangible, but real values of privacy, anonymity, and decentralization, which are in rising demand but are increasingly scarce (thus attempts to stamp out the system will only make the currency more valuable in the long run).

The currency rejects the supposition that the government or banking system must control all currency, and its assumption it has authority to define everybody else's legitimacy. The problem is that much of the financial system and its paperwork is prejudicially structured to presuppose such jurisdiction, such that it is cumbersome to earn or store wealth without coming under that misapplication. Bitcoin provides a system that permits creation or depositing currency that does not fall under that preemptive misclassification, or is subject to a centralized database. There is no third party to threaten, no institution to shut down, seize property of, or prosecute without real legal due process.

This means the "shut you down, smear your name, freeze your assets upfront so you can't fight back" tactics of the jackboots are not possible here. Bitcoin makes defaming those pursuing privacy and anonymity with charges of "tax evasion," and shutting their finances down first, while making people chase after their rights afterwards is made a thing of a past. That's why a lot of us like the pro-financial privacy, non-prejudically structured nature of this new currency and transaction system.

My 5770 can do 211mhash/s which means at current difficulty I can make .15 bitcoins a day,which means $.85 per day at the current exchange rate,and its going to consume 7.2 Kwh of electricity and it costs around $.12 per Kwh here. So I would be losing $.01 per day trying to make money.

Bitcoin mining was great up until may of last year,now you cannot get into it and make decent money.

Originally Posted by Grinch

The thing with bitcoins is that there not backed up by anything. For example USD is backed up by gold. Bitcoins are not fully developed and they are shy'd away from because of The Silk Road and other sites like that. But I like how you can go bit-mining and make "money" that way and I also seen a video of someone buying gas with bitcoins so they are popular just shy'd away from.

Lol man, you might want to review your economics 101 textbook.

Both gold and the usd(as well as a ton of other currencies) are "backed up" by marketing the more you can bullshit that its valuable the more people will want it and the more valuable it becomes.