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I am reading this, thought i would share. Must read for anyone who wants to ...
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    Default The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    I am reading this, thought i would share. Must read for anyone who wants to gain, recognize or protect themselves from power.

    Law 1
    Never Outshine the Master


    Always make those above you feel comfortably superior. In your desire to please or impress them, do not go too far in displaying your talents or you might accomplish the opposite – inspire fear and insecurity. Make your masters appear more brilliant than they are and you will attain the heights of power.


    Law 2
    Never put too Much Trust in Friends, Learn how to use Enemies


    Be wary of friends-they will betray you more quickly, for they are easily aroused to envy. They also become spoiled and tyrannical. But hire a former enemy and he will be more loyal than a friend, because he has more to prove. In fact, you have more to fear from friends than from enemies. If you have no enemies, find a way to make them.



    Law 3
    Conceal your Intentions


    Keep people off-balance and in the dark by never revealing the purpose behind your actions. If they have no clue what you are up to, they cannot prepare a defense. Guide them far enough down the wrong path, envelope them in enough smoke, and by the time they realize your intentions, it will be too late.



    Law 4
    Always Say Less than Necessary


    When you are trying to impress people with words, the more you say, the more common you appear, and the less in control. Even if you are saying something banal, it will seem original if you make it vague, open-ended, and sphinxlike. Powerful people impress and intimidate by saying less. The more you say, the more likely you are to say something foolish.



    Law 5
    So Much Depends on Reputation – Guard it with your Life


    Reputation is the cornerstone of power. Through reputation alone you can intimidate and win; once you slip, however, you are vulnerable, and will be attacked on all sides. Make your reputation unassailable. Always be alert to potential attacks and thwart them before they happen. Meanwhile, learn to destroy your enemies by opening holes in their own reputations. Then stand aside and let public opinion hang them.


    Law 6
    Court Attention at all Cost


    Everything is judged by its appearance; what is unseen counts for nothing. Never let yourself get lost in the crowd, then, or buried in oblivion. Stand out. Be conspicuous, at all cost. Make yourself a magnet of attention by appearing larger, more colorful, more mysterious, than the bland and timid masses.



    Law 7
    Get others to do the Work for you, but Always Take the Credit


    Use the wisdom, knowledge, and legwork of other people to further your own cause. Not only will such assistance save you valuable time and energy, it will give you a godlike aura of efficiency and speed. In the end your helpers will be forgotten and you will be remembered. Never do yourself what others can do for you.



    Law 8
    Make other People come to you – use Bait if Necessary


    When you force the other person to act, you are the one in control. It is always better to make your opponent come to you, abandoning his own plans in the process. Lure him with fabulous gains – then attack. You hold the cards.



    Law 9
    Win through your Actions, Never through Argument


    Any momentary triumph you think gained through argument is really a Pyrrhic victory: The resentment and ill will you stir up is stronger and lasts longer than any momentary change of opinion. It is much more powerful to get others to agree with you through your actions, without saying a word. Demonstrate, do not explicate.



    Law 10
    Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky


    You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease. You may feel you are helping the drowning man but you are only precipitating your own disaster. The unfortunate sometimes draw misfortune on themselves; they will also draw it on you. Associate with the happy and fortunate instead.


    Law 11
    Learn to Keep People Dependent on You


    To maintain your independence you must always be needed and wanted. The more you are relied on, the more freedom you have. Make people depend on you for their happiness and prosperity and you have nothing to fear. Never teach them enough so that they can do without you.



    Law 12
    Use Selective Honesty and Generosity to Disarm your Victim



    One sincere and honest move will cover over dozens of dishonest ones. Open-hearted gestures of honesty and generosity bring down the guard of even the most suspicious people. Once your selective honesty opens a hole in their armor, you can deceive and manipulate them at will. A timely gift – a Trojan horse – will serve the same purpose.



    Law 13
    When Asking for Help, Appeal to People’s Self-Interest,
    Never to their Mercy or Gratitude


    If you need to turn to an ally for help, do not bother to remind him of your past assistance and good deeds. He will find a way to ignore you. Instead, uncover something in your request, or in your alliance with him, that will benefit him, and emphasize it out of all proportion. He will respond enthusiastically when he sees something to be gained for himself.



    Law 14
    Pose as a Friend, Work as a Spy


    Knowing about your rival is critical. Use spies to gather valuable information that will keep you a step ahead. Better still: Play the spy yourself. In polite social encounters, learn to probe. Ask indirect questions to get people to reveal their weaknesses and intentions. There is no occasion that is not an opportunity for artful spying.



    Law 15
    Crush your Enemy Totally


    All great leaders since Moses have known that a feared enemy must be crushed completely. (Sometimes they have learned this the hard way.) If one ember is left alight, no matter how dimly it smolders, a fire will eventually break out. More is lost through stopping halfway than through total annihilation: The enemy will recover, and will seek revenge. Crush him, not only in body but in spirit.



    Law 16
    Use Absence to Increase Respect and Honor


    Too much circulation makes the price go down: The more you are seen and heard from, the more common you appear. If you are already established in a group, temporary withdrawal from it will make you more talked about, even more admired. You must learn when to leave. Create value through scarcity.



    Law 17
    Keep Others in Suspended Terror: Cultivate an Air of Unpredictability


    Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. Your predictability gives them a sense of control. Turn the tables: Be deliberately unpredictable. Behavior that seems to have no consistency or purpose will keep them off-balance, and they will wear themselves out trying to explain your moves. Taken to an extreme, this strategy can intimidate and terrorize.



    Law 18
    Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself – Isolation is Dangerous


    The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere – everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from – it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.



    Law 19
    Know Who You’re Dealing with – Do Not Offend the Wrong Person


    There are many different kinds of people in the world, and you can never assume that everyone will react to your strategies in the same way. Deceive or outmaneuver some people and they will spend the rest of their lives seeking revenge. They are wolves in lambs’ clothing. Choose your victims and opponents carefully, then – never offend or deceive the wrong person.



    Law 20
    Do Not Commit to Anyone


    It is the fool who always rushes to take sides. Do not commit to any side or cause but yourself. By maintaining your independence, you become the master of others – playing people against one another, making them pursue you.



    Law 21
    Play a Sucker to Catch a Sucker – Seem Dumber than your Mark


    No one likes feeling stupider than the next persons. The trick, is to make your victims feel smart – and not just smart, but smarter than you are. Once convinced of this, they will never suspect that you may have ulterior motives.



    Law 22
    Use the Surrender Tactic: Transform Weakness into Power


    When you are weaker, never fight for honor’s sake; choose surrender instead. Surrender gives you time to recover, time to torment and irritate your conqueror, time to wait for his power to wane. Do not give him the satisfaction of fighting and defeating you – surrender first. By turning the other check you infuriate and unsettle him. Make surrender a tool of power.



    Law 23
    Concentrate Your Forces


    Conserve your forces and energies by keeping them concentrated at their strongest point. You gain more by finding a rich mine and mining it deeper, than by flitting from one shallow mine to another – intensity defeats extensity every time. When looking for sources of power to elevate you, find the one key patron, the fat cow who will give you milk for a long time to come.



    Law 24
    Play the Perfect Courtier


    The perfect courtier thrives in a world where everything revolves around power and political dexterity. He has mastered the art of indirection; he flatters, yields to superiors, and asserts power over others in the mot oblique and graceful manner. Learn and apply the laws of courtiership and there will be no limit to how far you can rise in the court.



    Law 25
    Re-Create Yourself


    Do not accept the roles that society foists on you. Re-create yourself by forging a new identity, one that commands attention and never bores the audience. Be the master of your own image rather than letting others define if for you. Incorporate dramatic devices into your public gestures and actions – your power will be enhanced and your character will seem larger than life.



    Law 26
    Keep Your Hands Clean


    You must seem a paragon of civility and efficiency: Your hands are never soiled by mistakes and nasty deeds. Maintain such a spotless appearance by using others as scapegoats and cat’s-paws to disguise your involvement.


    Law 27
    Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following


    People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.



    Law 28
    Enter Action with Boldness


    If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: Better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid.



    Law 29
    Plan All the Way to the End


    The ending is everything. Plan all the way to it, taking into account all the possible consequences, obstacles, and twists of fortune that might reverse your hard work and give the glory to others. By planning to the end you will not be overwhelmed by circumstances and you will know when to stop. Gently guide fortune and help determine the future by thinking far ahead.



    Law 30
    Make your Accomplishments Seem Effortless


    Your actions must seem natural and executed with ease. All the toil and practice that go into them, and also all the clever tricks, must be concealed. When you act, act effortlessly, as if you could do much more. Avoid the temptation of revealing how hard you work – it only raises questions. Teach no one your tricks or they will be used against you.



    Law 31
    Control the Options: Get Others to Play with the Cards you Deal


    The best deceptions are the ones that seem to give the other person a choice: Your victims feel they are in control, but are actually your puppets. Give people options that come out in your favor whichever one they choose. Force them to make choices between the lesser of two evils, both of which serve your purpose. Put them on the horns of a dilemma: They are gored wherever they turn.



    Law 32
    Play to People’s Fantasies


    The truth is often avoided because it is ugly and unpleasant. Never appeal to truth and reality unless you are prepared for the anger that comes for disenchantment. Life is so harsh and distressing that people who can manufacture romance or conjure up fantasy are like oases in the desert: Everyone flocks to them. There is great power in tapping into the fantasies of the masses.



    Law 33
    Discover Each Man’s Thumbscrew


    Everyone has a weakness, a gap in the castle wall. That weakness is usual y an insecurity, an uncontrollable emotion or need; it can also be a small secret pleasure. Either way, once found, it is a thumbscrew you can turn to your advantage.



    Law 34
    Be Royal in your Own Fashion: Act like a King to be treated like one


    The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated; In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you. For a king respects himself and inspires the same sentiment in others. By acting regally and confident of your powers, you make yourself seem destined to wear a crown.



    Law 35
    Master the Art of Timing


    Never seem to be in a hurry – hurrying betrays a lack of control over yourself, and over time. Always seem patient, as if you know that everything will come to you eventually. Become a detective of the right moment; sniff out the spirit of the times, the trends that will carry you to power. Learn to stand back when the time is not yet ripe, and to strike fiercely when it has reached fruition.



    Law 36
    Disdain Things you cannot have: Ignoring them is the best Revenge


    By acknowledging a petty problem you give it existence and credibility. The more attention you pay an enemy, the stronger you make him; and a small mistake is often made worse and more visible when you try to fix it. It is sometimes best to leave things alone. If there is something you want but cannot have, show contempt for it. The less interest you reveal, the more superior you seem.


    Law 37
    Create Compelling Spectacles


    Striking imagery and grand symbolic gestures create the aura of power – everyone responds to them. Stage spectacles for those around you, then full of arresting visuals and radiant symbols that heighten your presence. Dazzled by appearances, no one will notice what you are really doing.


    Law 38
    Think as you like but Behave like others


    If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.


    Law 39
    Stir up Waters to Catch Fish


    Anger and emotion are strategically counterproductive. You must always stay calm and objective. But if you can make your enemies angry while staying calm yourself, you gain a decided advantage. Put your enemies off-balance: Find the chink in their vanity through which you can rattle them and you hold the strings.


    Law 40
    Despise the Free Lunch


    What is offered for free is dangerous – it usually involves either a trick or a hidden obligation. What has worth is worth paying for. By paying your own way you stay clear of gratitude, guilt, and deceit. It is also often wise to pay the full price – there is no cutting corners with excellence. Be lavish with your money and keep it circulating, for generosity is a sign and a magnet for power.


    Law 41
    Avoid Stepping into a Great Man’s Shoes


    What happens first always appears better and more original than what comes after. If you succeed a great man or have a famous parent, you will have to accomplish double their achievements to outshine them. Do not get lost in their shadow, or stuck in a past not of your own making: Establish your own name and identity by changing course. Slay the overbearing father, disparage his legacy, and gain power by shining in your own way.


    Law 42
    Strike the Shepherd and the Sheep will Scatter


    Trouble can often be traced to a single strong individual – the stirrer, the arrogant underling, the poisoned of goodwill. If you allow such people room to operate, others will succumb to their influence. Do not wait for the troubles they cause to multiply, do not try to negotiate with them – they are irredeemable. Neutralize their influence by isolating or banishing them. Strike at the source of the trouble and the sheep will scatter.


    Law 43
    Work on the Hearts and Minds of Others


    Coercion creates a reaction that will eventually work against you. You must seduce others into wanting to move in your direction. A person you have seduced becomes your loyal pawn. And the way to seduce others is to operate on their individual psychologies and weaknesses. Soften up the resistant by working on their emotions, playing on what they hold dear and what they fear. Ignore the hearts and minds of others and they will grow to hate you.


    Law 44
    Disarm and Infuriate with the Mirror Effect


    The mirror reflects reality, but it is also the perfect tool for deception: When you mirror your enemies, doing exactly as they do, they cannot figure out your strategy. The Mirror Effect mocks and humiliates them, making them overreact. By holding up a mirror to their psyches, you seduce them with the illusion that you share their values; by holding up a mirror to their actions, you teach them a lesson. Few can resist the power of Mirror Effect.


    Law 45
    Preach the Need for Change, but Never Reform too much at Once


    Everyone understands the need for change in the abstract, but on the day-to-day level people are creatures of habit. Too much innovation is traumatic, and will lead to revolt. If you are new to a position of power, or an outsider trying to build a power base, make a show of respecting the old way of doing things. If change is necessary, make it feel like a gentle improvement on the past.


    Law 46
    Never appear too Perfect


    Appearing better than others is always dangerous, but most dangerous of all is to appear to have no faults or weaknesses. Envy creates silent enemies. It is smart to occasionally display defects, and admit to harmless vices, in order to deflect envy and appear more human and approachable. Only gods and the dead can seem perfect with impunity.


    Law 47
    Do not go Past the Mark you Aimed for; In Victory, Learn when to Stop


    The moment of victory is often the moment of greatest peril. In the heat of victory, arrogance and overconfidence can push you past the goal you had aimed for, and by going too far, you make more enemies than you defeat. Do not allow success to go to your head. There is no substitute for strategy and careful planning. Set a goal, and when you reach it, stop.


    Law 48
    Assume Formlessness


    By taking a shape, by having a visible plan, you open yourself to attack. Instead of taking a form for your enemy to grasp, keep yourself adaptable and on the move. Accept the fact that nothing is certain and no law is fixed. The best way to protect yourself is to be as fluid and formless as water; never bet on stability or lasting order. Everything changes.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    idk if im allowed to post this but I found where you can download the pdf of the book "the 48 laws of power" by Robert Greene

    http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4687..._Laws_of_Power

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    interesting read. I would say be careful applying these laws all at once
    Last edited by 420lounge; 08-09-2011 at 05:30 AM.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    This book is amazing. I wish I had read it earlier. I didn't know many of these laws and got fired from several places because I violated many of them. The most important being Never Outshine the Master
    Be a Donor. Have your Signature.Thanks.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Be careful. Some of these laws are hard to manage if you're introvert. Because you'll appear paranoid as some laws works like charm only if you're street smart extrovert. In case of introverts executing these laws in life, comes with some tradeoffs and more mistakes per law which surpasses all 48 laws.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Law #49: There are no laws. lol

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    I read this book a few years ago and it's definitely one of the best books I've ever read.
    Another good one is How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. Timeless information. Check it out if you haven't already.
    It's like playing tic-tac-toe against a retard

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    This was a good reminder of what is important for success in simplified snippets!

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by 420lounge View Post
    interesting read. I would say be careful applying these laws all at once
    Yes, I read your first edit about, how this is betrayal, and not a guide on becoming a person you would want to know. You're right, it's not "treat people the way you want to be treated". It's the laws of power. They are important to know so that you may choose to use them within certain situations, or learn to recognize when someone else is using them against you.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    I think that book is very overrated. I have a well worn copy of it. It's more of an employee or bureaucrat handbook. It's not really for guys with our inclination to break free from the machine. If you want to battle in corporate america or have power struggles within some sort of group context, then it might be for you. For me, it's a waste of time.

    Act like a King to be treated like one!

    I live that quote!

    But I suffer from: Law 46
    Never appear too Perfect
    Last edited by MikeHustle; 08-09-2011 at 02:31 PM.
    “You don’t have to get it right, you just have to get it going”.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Where did you get this? Interesting points.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeHustle View Post
    I think that book is very overrated. I have a well worn copy of it. It's more of an employee or bureaucrat handbook. It's not really for guys with our inclination to break free from the machine. If you want to battle in corporate america or have power struggles within some sort of group context, then it might be for you. For me, it's a waste of time.

    Act as the king and you will be treated as the king!

    I live that quote!
    I agree and disagree. I agree that its useful within corporate power structures; It's also useful in personal relationships. As entrepreneurs such as ourselves, who love the freedom, money and power offer it, in any case, whether you choose to act on the laws, or not. I think its important to recognize them when someone is trying to use them against you.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cnotey View Post
    Where did you get this? Interesting points.
    I own the book. It's called "The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene"


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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    1. Quote Originally Posted by kayzne View Post
      I agree and disagree. I agree that its useful within corporate power structures; It's also useful in personal relationships. As entrepreneurs such as ourselves, who love the freedom, money and power offer it, in any case, whether you choose to act on the laws, or not. I think its important to recognize them when someone is trying to use them against you.



    Indeed. Couldn't agree more.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MikeHustle
    I think that book is very overrated. I have a well worn copy of it. It's more of an employee or bureaucrat handbook. It's not really for guys with our inclination to break free from the machine. If you want to battle in corporate america or have power struggles within some sort of group context, then it might be for you. For me, it's a waste of time.

    Act as the king and you will be treated as the king!

    I live that quote!






    These laws are not just for employees. These are laws based around kings and queens rising to power and keeping their power amongst nations that did not waste their mental capacity sitting in front of televisions.

    This is a book of intellectual chess and how to master the game.

    A story of prostitute women who by manipulating the powerful and entire nations got what they wanted, the story of Columbus and how he seduced a queen into almost making him the wealthiest man who ever lived.

    The story of Queens and Kings who fell and rose all based around principles of human being-ness.

    You should wear your copy out a little more dude--you are missing some juicey nuggets of gold.


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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    One of my favorite reads. I recommend reading all of these at the same time while brushing up on chess techniques...

    48 Laws Of Power
    Machivellis Book Of Principalities
    Art Of War
    "Wealth is a product of labor. Capital is an effect, not a cause; a servant, not a master; a means, not an end."

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Good shit.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    This was a nice read, I'm glad the op posted this.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by tymillz View Post
    One of my favorite reads. I recommend reading all of these at the same time while brushing up on chess techniques...

    48 Laws Of Power
    Machivellis Book Of Principalities
    Art Of War
    Some philosophical book case you've got .

    Is "Machivellis Book Of Principalities" the same as "The Prince" just a different title or something?

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    eh...I'd rather be happy and enjoy life and be happy than be a power hungry douche. The world has enough of those. Maybe it's just the INTP in be

    Besides, there's plenty of ways to make money and still enrich your competition. You just got to be more clever or learn stuff they don't know.

    Still, good info to know.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
    —GEORGE BERNARD SHAW, Maxims for Revolutionists

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    It's a very good book on power, but I must say I have grown up to read other books on human psychology as-well and I honestly think that even though the principles taught in this book are those everyone "must" be aware of, I have to admit that this is the number one book on social deception and concealing human traits and the "good", "powerful" you a person can be.

    I believe being a person who cares for others can serve much more power than principles in this book.

    Read "How to win friends and influence people". It's the "48 laws of power" in a human fashion.
    Wayne Dyer's "How to be a NLP" is also a great audiobook.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bross View Post
    Wayne Dyer's "How to be a NLP" is also a great audiobook.
    You should google glenn osborn nlp. Fascinating info/guy.

    I recommend listening to some of his blogtalkradio interviews by vegasvince if you're totally new to nlp like me. His websites are probably easy to dismiss without an introduction to his personality and knowledge.
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
    —GEORGE BERNARD SHAW, Maxims for Revolutionists

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Been looking for a good book to read. I was poking through my library of NLP books last night and was going to re-read something but I'm gonna check this out. Thanks.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    I also enjoyed "The 50th Power" by Robert Greene and 50 Cent, it expands on a lot of 48 Laws stuff in a similarly Machiavallian way.
    "An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Last edited by Scococo; 08-14-2011 at 02:49 AM.

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    robert greene wrote 3 books 48 laws of power .. art of seduction and the art of war ( not the suntzu version though thats good too) .. read all three books ... there all great reads

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
    I also enjoyed "The 50th Power" by Robert Greene and 50 Cent, it expands on a lot of 48 Laws stuff in a similarly Machiavallian way.
    Thanks i'll check that out too

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Another good one is Think and Grow Rich by Napolean Hill
    G$$gle

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    Default Re: The 48 Laws Of Power - A MUST Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungGuns View Post
    eh...I'd rather be happy and enjoy life and be happy than be a power hungry douche. The world has enough of those. Maybe it's just the INTP in be

    Besides, there's plenty of ways to make money and still enrich your competition. You just got to be more clever or learn stuff they don't know.

    Still, good info to know.
    You don't have to follow every rule in the book. There are one you can't take and not be a bad guy. Talking less and listening more is one thing i think we can all agree is a good thing to do.

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