Well as far as the "challenge" goes, here is the latest. Dogdog has been building 171 anchored text backlinks in a seven hour period from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. today for the search term he wanted me to optimize his site for. Unfortunately this has ruined his chances for optimizing under his chosen search terms. I sent dogdog a email to remedy this.


I am now using another method of optimizing for the search terms he wants. And I have asked him to stop link building for these terms. As it stands, his indexed positions for these terms have been sliding down as they should be in Google's reaction to attempting to game their SE.

If you read my post above where I explain in detail why it takes 10 days not 1 to index the top position, you'll see it's not a case of mass link building alone which accomplishes the top spots. If you want to learn more, I'll be making a post in the next two days on my blog about it and I'll update this thread.

Yes, the screenshot was just to demonstrate the phrase being indexed.

This seems true about my own SEO project (about building 171 anchored text backlinks in a seven hour has negative impact on the ranking) on 10th June 2008 but today (12th June 2008) when Google updates my site, it achieved good result. Now my site is ranked 6th on google for the 1st keywords and 28th for the 2nd keywords.

Since the foundation is being built, it makes much easier for Robert to achieve the target. I have emailed Robert to revise the number of days needed to achieve number 1 position.

seoagent, thanks for your detailed posts. I have a question about getting unique backlinks. There are a few services being advertised in DP and other forums which which will post your articles on hundreds of blogs. Do you think the quick backlinks from such blog farms help you in ranking? or are these blog farms considered as spams? Thanks for your help.

Only if you build backlinks over time. Doing them all at once or over a few days will get you de-listed temporarily and you'll have to wait and see where Google decides to re-index your site. This is what happened to DogDog.

This is normal for Google to do, because of the mass changes, it has no choice but to de-list and re-index. This usually takes about three hours as it happened with Dogdog, but it can take more than a day, depending on what you have been doing to your website.

I can tell you that pinging your website many times wil have edverse effect on your index positions. They tend to dissappear temporarily. This is for the same reason, Google thinks,"Okay, you've got alot going on, I'll just wait until you are all done and then I will re-index your site."

When Dogdog stopped building backlinks, Google then re-indexed his site yesterday.

Update: Dogdog is now at number 5 and 17 and I have let him know via email, he doesn't need me on this one, becasue he did the work himself over the past five days. There are better ways to go and I gave him some ways to reduce his efforts some 1,400%. lol. No award, becasue I wasn't needed here. Although I am still monitoring hos progress and keeping snapshots of what goes on with his competitor ( asleep at the wheel almost) and Dogdog's website for the search terms he was optimizing under. If anything, we now have a new case study of using one form of brute force seo tactics and it's outcome on Google. So there is more to document each day, but Dogdog can save his money, becasue he has the done the work himself. Only if after a few more days he doesn't get it, then I will do something to help out, beside writing page long eamils of advice. LOL.

Thanks for your advice seoagent. I will go ahead and do an experiment with one of my old domains with hardly any backlinks and see how Google treats my site if I build backlinks in a short span of time.

The latest is DogDog made mass changes to page titles and meta tags. Again, Google temporarily removed his site for his chosen search terms. A day later, he reversed all the tags and titles, save one. Google re-indexed the site at 6 and 27. It happened, because the site is now being seen with less "trust" seo factors than before. The site appears to be going through massive changes at a time. and Google sees this as a website, which can be counted on less for reliable and useful reliable content for it's users.

Yahoo is still out on re-indexing the website for one of the search terms. The lesson here is if you want to keep being indexed, stop making mass changes to your website all at once. There is no need for it. All it looks like, is your website is going through radical changes far past what Google's algorithm will accept as "progressive" change. And if it is "radical" change, you can expect Google to act much as a bank would for anyone of it's lending clients. Once you start respecting your website in the same manner you respect your company's credit rating, you will be in a far better position to make changes to your website in affecting control over your indexed positions in any search engine.

So further to the above, mass change is all about brute force tactics. Anything which is outside the development of all websites indexed within a search engine, will be flagged for further analysis by Google, and will be checked for all machine build practices. If anything you have done is not within the "natural" developmental nature of website development, you can expect search engines in general to respond unfavorably.

Your website is a breathing entity and once you realize it takes constant daily care and making changes are always required, you will at least be able to climb in indexed positions and keep them over time long term. Build to last is not the same as build over night. One is a pirate approach, the other an investment approach. I'm sure everyone can understand the outcomes to both methods.

Use automation of course, just only enough to look like you are building by hand. This is the key. Automation should be working just as if you had someone hired to so the work. If you design and program your software accordingly, you will succeed and not alert search engines to flag your site.

i'd give you "thanks" to bat the button no workin fo now. so that's why my blog is getting lower traffic, because i posted 300 entries in few days...

Exactly, because your blog pinged all those services not only on every published post, but every time you saved, edited, and deleted any post. Also every time you updated or activated any plug-in. Basically anything you do on your blog causes the ping services to be "announced" or alerted. This is true for WordPress especially.

You can go to my blog in my signature tag and do a search for "indexing" or "pinging" and find the article on removing the ping services temporarily. There is also a write up on this forum. Do a search under my user name and you'll find it. It's all about ping services and WordPress Blogs. I write alot each day and sorry if I cannot remember which post contains this information. I think even this thread has some information on it. I know my blog does as well.

For your experience, once you follow the simple instructions on my blog (also check the comments section for further information and clarification from readers), you will be able to at least make 10 posts a day total and Google will start to forgive you. You only ping the services once a day. Two would be a max and not really necessary.

The reason is Google and other search engines always set up their own crawl cycles irrelevant of what the robot text file or sitemap xml file says on your blog or website. The cycle is based upon what is found and how much change is occurring on your website. What this means to you is even if you do not ping after a while, it won't matter, because the search engine spiders will crawl your website and blog anyways .

So if you have a blog with 10 posts or even pages a day, the search engine spiders will crawl your website daily. You can try this and check your website log records for crawl activity. You will see, even when the ping services are removed from your blog, they will still come and crawl your website and index all your new content.

In the old days we would check these records and schedule publishing around the times the search engine spiders would crawl our websites. However, now with the ping services installed, you decide when to have all the search engines come and crawl your website and index all your new content.

A foot note here: The best method when using WordPress Blogs for publishing pages and posts: Always publish the pages and posts as "Private." This makes sure they are not crawled. WordPress places the posts and pages which are marked private at the time of publishing as a hidden record in the WordPress DB. Then when you want everyone to see your work, you simply change the pages and posts to "Published."

And follow the guidelines of using the ping services only once a day. This way you can publish all your 300 pages and posts all at once and even schedule when you want them to show up. You can go do something else while your blog continues to publish on schedule. If you use the scheduling feature in WordPress, you can disregard setting the article for "Private." his is because WordPress will treat the post or page the same way as "Private" and make the record hidden until it is "Published."

Choose which method you are most comfortable with.

ok count me in .... cost ?

Wow ! thank you man, this was a great answer!
i'm already reading your blog.
Unfortunately i'm forced to publish such amount of posts because of time.
I schedule them to publish one per day, for example 100 posts i'll schedule them from 20 jun to 30 sept. the next week i'll come with another 100 posts and will already have 2 posts per day, and so one, in 2 months i'll have 10 posts per day scheduled. i intend to use the ping services 2-3/week for one single post, like you said. what should i do about google xml sitemap plugin? should i deactivate it?

Where exactly on your blog do you get into this. I didn't see it other than the quick reference you'd made in that post on your blog.

My reference was to that last senetence in the above post where you state "The
post on my blog shows how to get the first position,"

Thanks

My understanding was with pre-WP 2.5 you could install the Ultimate Plugins Smart Updater and it would fix the overpinging for future posts and saves/edits.

And I also read that WP 2.5 fixes this issue internally.

I've been going by this thinking for several blogs- anything wrong there?

Thanks for your reply pupster.

Just for you and so many who are still making every attempt to get their voices heard on the world wide web via Google! I just spent a good hour re-writing the post to what you were asking for. It's so fresh, that Feedburner is still recording my cached page from 30 minutes ago.

Here is a newly updated post titled:
Top Method To Achieving Top Position In Google

But don't bother to search for it on Google, because I have removed all the ping services over a month ago. LOL. The reason is I have devoted the past 10 days reviewing every single WordPress Plug-in available. It took me about 90 hours to go through over 1,000 plug-ins. After careful review and research, I selected the very best WordPress plug-ins to install and test.

In between answering forum questions here at BHW and SEO Elite and Keyword Elite and Half Again, and Warriors and Rocket Theme and Joomla and... well you get the picture. I have been developing a whole new webinar and video training series showcasing all the cool plug-ins.

So after the testing, which is straight forward for me, those plug-ins which pass successfully and make a difference in automation, interactivity, and performance will be included in this series coming out next month. Once I get through the testing phase, I'll contact each plug-in developer to invite each one to attend their respective webinar and talk about what they have found works best and why. We are setting up a complete WordPress CMS and Plug-in Interactive and Live Software Training Module. So people who use WordPress as a CMS will be able to get daily live training from the developers of all these plug-ins and the CMS. And if you're into the Joomla CMS, then you're next on the list come August!

I think it's going to be quite a success, since the software training platform we started building five months ago has VOIP installed in it and we absorb the full cost of broadcasting planet wide. Anyways, I'm way off topic here!
(I hardly ever sleep anymore, I'm so revved up! )

The point being, once I get the installs done here and decide what will stay, I have at least twenty new pages to publish on my blog. This is rich stuff which will also be accompanied by a video tutorial in each post. This will keep everyone busy as it publishes one page each day. This way you can tru and test the methods each day. and keep what you like. And no more questions about how to do this and that, since you will see step by step how to do it.

Also, I can get onto the web design portion (final step) of our new software training site which CITRIX has been waiting for. It's huge, because so far, we have broken all records for webcast attendance world-wide. Anyways, I'm anxious to get this one going. So enjoy the newly revised post and if you have any questions you can email me, PM me, or post your comment s right on the post.

If all else fails, check the signature tag below and click on "Top Method To Achieving Top Position In Google" in the sidebar. Or use the internal search engine. Man are we going to be moving this site forward in that respect. The developers tell me their plug-in for internal search kicks ass over Google! Yeah right! We'll see, we'll see.

Thanks everyone for your interest into this story. And I am happy it is working for most of you. Don't worry, the road paved with gold is at least getting done for you. Soon all you'll have to do is just show up. (Yeah right!) "Back to work seo agent! Back to work!"

To prove it to yourself, go into the admin panel of WordPress. Under writing tab, and scroll down to the bottom of the panel. You will see in a text box, all your pingurls. every time you do anything which means edit, comment, save, schedule, post, or publish pages; as well as call up any log records via WordPress Plug-ins will cause WordPress to "announce" any changes whatsoever to ALL the ping services via the urls in this text box.

If you see any there, please cut and paste into a text file via Note Pad (Windows). Save it. Now go ahead and follow the directions for publishing, ect. When you have only one post left or page, then insert (paste) your ping service urls back into this text box. And make your FINAL action, which is "PUBLISH" or "Schedule."

Make sure you have thoroughly read your preview of your post, because if you change even a spelling error, you will have notified the services again. This practice you are attempting to avoid is known as "Ping Spamming." Which is to say pinging for no reason at all. The more you ping, the less trusted your site is in the search engine's eyes so to speak.

You see goonieguhu, following the above method, will make sure even when people comment on your blog, the ping services are at rest with your blog. They will not come by request. And the search engines will come to your site naturally and in perfect harmony to your publishing frequency and style.

As far as "smart Plug-ins, sure they will do SOME of the work for you, but they will still notify the ping services on every new comment, post, and page! What happens when you have 5 posts and 4 pages and 12 comments to answer to with? That's already 21 pings for every ping url in your list! That's going to be over (are you ready for this?) 1,000 pings a day!! You only need 50 (one ping for each service assuming 50 ping urls).

The plug-in is flawed, because it will not allow you to command complete control over when and exactly how many times it can ping daily. What would be really cool (and I'll talk to the developers on this one) is to simply schedule one ping only based on the arguement, <if no entry, 0;>0, set 1> TIMED ,(time and date set here). This is not the right syntax, but basically it says, if no new entry, ping zero times. If more than zero entries, ping only once at set time. To which the plug-in would control via the admin interface in WordPress.

This is what is missing. A litle php and editing of the WordPress Scheduling Script (wpcron)should be able to do the job. This is what is missing from all current "smart" plug-ins. My advise is for you to cut and paste and paste back as I have described. This way you leave no stone unturned, no chances for mistakes.

The second worst event that can happen is you forgot to paste the ping urls back into the text box. The worst mistake is you leave the ping url list in tack in the text box. Don't do this. Make a sticky on your screen for now to remind you.Use a simple 1,2,3 checklist and check it off each day if you are really paranoid.

But using the above plug-in will not stop your blog from abusing the ping services, because it still pings the parameters of new posts, pages and comments. I would wait until the developers take my recommendation as described above, before installing this type of plug-in. It is not fully though through as you can see.

After a year or so, you'll actually start to think, why even ping at all? But I'll leave that for another day. To your concern goonieguhu, you must remove all ping urls right after the install. This way, it's only the search engine's fault if they come and crawl for no reason. But pinging is like making obscene phone calls. In this case, it's not criminal, so they just ban your website after a while. Then you have no ping services to ping.

This is why everyone who uses CMS's as a web platform get's into trouble and can not index their content. It is just one factor, but a major fall back.
Later in the year, we'll get into "Optimizing your WordPress Blog for Search Engines." That's coming after I test all the plugins and see what they do regarding indexing and such.

The end result we are going for is a combination of originality of the website owner, combined with a balance of website management tasks which are handled through automated processes. (yawn!) Yeah, I know, but this is what is needed to get the edge in Search Marketing today. So stick around, because it's going to be alot of fun this summer here at BHW and Chase Global Media.

SeoAgent,

In this post >> http://chaseglobalmedia.com/blog/top-method-to-achieving-number-one-position-in-google/
you make reference to a link for On Page SEO Factors of which there is no link that exists to follow. I wanted to give that a quick glance...but no can do.

2. You make reference on how to get a top 10 position by pointing links from pages that you should have already achieved Top Rankings for keywords with results under 221,000 searches but you don't get into what you do to get top positions for those terms inorder to get the real bang for your buck by pointing links to the keywords that get more of the searches...the broad phrases as opposed to the long tail.

Although I am already familiar with focusing your efforts for ranking for the longer tail and then using the strength of those to point links back at the harder kw's....I don't see the details of getting the top 3 positions for the easier keywords without the use of backlinks from your post.

Am I missing something here.

Also, what of the use of WordTracker as opposed to Keyword Elite as far as searches. Is your method...whatever that may be as I still haven't really seen what your referencing, work for it as well.

Thanks

Pupster, this is all basic, elementary SEO 'tactics' being referred to here.

Both questions can be answered here...

Onpage SEO factors are the simple things like Title, Descriptions, Kw density, anchor text links, img tags, etc. etc. etc. Google or search any IM forum and you will undoubtedly find tons of information about onpage SEO.

What Robert is saying is that yes, there are easy keywords to rank for which are the longtail, under 221,000 broad phrase results. Robert does mention that once you're focusing on kw/phrases above 221,000 then the use of backlinks (offpage SEO factors) becomes more necessary to rank combined with onpage SEO.

Next, you focus on ranking for those phrases using simple onpage SEO techniques which I described above which should get you into the top10 'easily'.

When you get those kw's ranked top10, now you can start going after the 'harder' competition phrases which aren't longtail and over 221,000 results. You can use the high rank of your 'easy' kw's and link up to your 'harder' kw pages.

Which now means your harder kw's got juice behind them because you're linking up to them with pages already top10. Now it should be easier to rank that 'harder' kw.

Keyword Elite is just a keyword tool. WordTracker is a keyword database. Tools pull from database(s). KE also has the option to pull from WT. If you can afford the subscription to WordTracker by all means go for it. However KE and other tools tend to pull from a variety of databases, including WT. That way you get a good look at wide range of kw information and you can cook it up how you like it.

Hope that helps.

Deth,

thanks for the post. You pretty much summed up what I was referencing and I appreciate your post.

I know all about On Page Factors as I've done it with my eCommerce site. I've gotten top 10 and 2nd page rankings from longer tail phrases but to be honest I don't know that I would have received them solely from On Page efforts without the use of outside links to interior pages and registering with the Yahoo Directory and other factors.

I've also pointed the appropriate sub-Category landing page links to tier higher Category Page of which the sub-Category page belongs to for internal linking purposes.

Actually in doing this, this helps to create an after effect of a Double-listing.

I just thought there was more to it than what he was referencing.....and it really still boils down to getting relevant links.

Wow I just stuck my head out of development to retrieve a logon password and I see I have created some confusion here for you. Sorry about this. I addressed this in the comments section of the above post.

Correct!

Take a look at the articles again. You are right, I don't get into the actual construction of what to say and where to say it, so you get the top position. As you can imagine, new people come to me everyday, and you have pointed out a very good point to me. To which I will imlement in the future. And that is to say, I need to organize the content based upon aptitude of the reader.

For one person to read this, they will say, "Been there done that." Another person will say, "Great, thanks, it works for me." And another person will say, "What do you mean?" While others will say, "Can you do this for me, I'll pay you." And on it goes.

Thanks for that point. right now I am on a sabbatical for WordPress testing over 160 plug-ins to find out the best ones and how to use them for next months programs. But when I get back to the front end in a week or so, I will organize the articles and pages. And instead of categorizing them based upon experience, I will tag each one based upon aptitude. Such as professional, expert, intermediate, beginner, and newbie. And then I'll let our readers be the judge and rate them each appropriately. And of course I will have a link "Click here to see how to rate this article." How does that sound to you?

To make it dead simple I'll use a number rating 1-10 where the reader rates the article based upon difficulty of comprehension. Then when people come and read it, they will be able to see what the general aptitude of our readers are. And with that, they can then search via the tags (professional, expert, intermediate, beginner, or newbie) and find all the articles geared for themselves, based upon where they feel most comfortable. And thanks, that is an excellent insight!


No I just did, and now I learned form it. Thanks.

In the near future, next month sometime. As part of a new site for training, I will be producing alot of much shorter videos to show how this all works in real time. So don't worry if it goes over your head. It will if you have not taken all the training at http://keywordelite.com/chat and clicked onto the training site link. But don't worry, I am aware of this confusion and it will be greatly improved upon and will look like nothing that is currently available.

I learned how to teach people three times faster than we have last year. If you go to the training site, which is around 24 plus hours of video. And you go to the Project One and Project Two Training, it will show you exactly how to do this. Alot of what I write on this test blog is information for those customers who purchased Keyword Elite already. But as I mentioned, you can go and see the training first and see how it is done before you grab a copy of the software.

Now to answer your question about WordTracker. WT has a search count of 15,000 for paid memberships of $39/month. This means you enter a keyword and WT will retrieve up to 15K of related keyword phrases and sort them based upon search volume. Keyword Elite uses a contracted service of WT. Keyword Elite uses WT as one of five or six different sources for retrieving large keyword lists. The WT component retrieves 1,500 keywords.

But what makes Keyword Elite a top notch product is it's ability to take WT's 1,500 Keywords and then automatically input them in a que to be searched twenty at a time with each of Keyword Elite's other five or six other keyword mining sources. And further it does this in a matrix of at least 5X5 to bring back 25 combined keyword lists. You can generate literally millions upon millions of keyword phrases all in one niche with Keyword Elite.

And I can see, I'll have to make a updated series for thsi product as well. But I am only one software trainer, video producer, technical writer, seo agent, platform developer, webcast producer, web designer, ect. LOL! So it takes me a while to catch up. Today, it's 160 plugins getting configured on my blog. This will go on for days. But keep asking me questions and I'll try to get back to them as soon as I can.

The below was so well said, I updated my page on my blog for this topic and inserted your explanation and gave you a backlink reference right to your thread above with the below explanation. Well said!! Now when people read it, they will even get to understand what it is I was initially attempting to describe. Thanks very much. I should get you to read all my new stuff, becasue you say it better than I do.

Ok this is where I am a little bit confused

I used seobook keyword research tool and found a good term, google estimate 12,449 wordtracker 9959, Checking in google "Results 1 - 10 of about 179,000"
for the search with quotes "Results 1 - 10 of about 6,000"

So by working on Roberts method it should be possible to gain a good ranking for this term.

But if you are looking at the results on the first page they all appear to be large food networks, or one is another SEO person that is spamming the hell out of some of the social book sites. Is it still possible to rank well when you are going up again these types of people.

Now is the seobook tool wrong as when I check google trends it gives a much different picture. http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vizer3.png