This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

 

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    Default This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack



    I feel like this post covers one of the most important topics of 2013/2014 for blackhatters and anyone whos business has money invested in Google. The game is changing, Google's capabilities are advancing and we have to adapt in order to continue to thrive.

    I have been trying unsuccessfully to run an experiment for a while now, even before the 301 redirect technique thread I had been trying to catch some attention from Matt Cutts but nothing was happening. It all started with Grindstone and Dog Snuggie incident(When Rand Fishkin's site ranked for "Dog Snuggie"). Google didn't take kindly to it at all.

    So the idea was to try and bait Matt Cutts into attacking various levels of my sites and anonymity, thus revealing the current capabilities, resources and depth at which Google will identify and attack a person they want to "punish".

    So on the 12th of December in another attempt, I tweeted him this post I made not long ago on BHW which is passive aggressive towards him and Google. I didn't think anything of it, but it finally worked. Two days later I get a tweet from Matt Cutts directly, but not on my @agentblackhat twitter account that I tweeted him from. I received the tweet on a very old and unused personal account with my real name on.

    In preparation for this I had several layers of anonymity setup, I talk about this in more detail on my blog, hopefully BHW mods will allow me to post at the bottom.

    So why did I do this?

    We needed to understand how Google is taking the next step into penalizing sites and discovering sites. Google has created a vast network of online properties and software which they are recording user’s activity, your activity. The natural next step for Google is to begin targeting people, not just sites. If you are a big player in a specific niche, it won’t be just your site they target, they will begin doing homework on who you are, what you’re connected to and eventually your card will be marked. I even suspect a database, maybe even a “Most Wanted” database of marketers who cause Google the most trouble.

    What we learned from this stunt


    Matt Cutts has a personal hand in penalizing sites, he points the finger and you are a target, his team do the research on who you are and use all the tools at their disposal to track you. But how far do they go?

    Webmaster tools


    Anything connected to my webmaster tools account was penalized, including very very old sites which don’t even exist anymore. I even had unnatural link messages for sites that were deleted from my webmaster tools account. So we can safely say that Webmaster tools is a complete hazard to your sites if you’re targeted. Two, possibly three webmaster tools accounts were compromised by the attacker, in addition, my main personal account using my personal email was shutdown and I was asked to hand over my phone number, I had to contact Google support to reopen the account, no explanation was given by Google support. I found it odd that sites I don’t own or were removed from WMT were targeted and I was receiving unnatural link messages for them. This may also include other webmaster tools accounts you’ve logged into form the same IP, think your clients WMT account.

    Your name is a target


    I’m not completely sure how Matt Cutts found my name through my @agentblackhat twitter account, it could possibly that I don’t have privacy on some sites that this blog is connected to in WMT, either way, he spent the time and resources to find my name and then search it online(I wonder if they use Google SE for this or a hidden tool?). Through this they likely found the agency I work for and proceeded to penalize the main site. What is strange about this penalty is that we recently had a partial manual penalty removed from our site. Google’s spam team specifically said that our site is worthy of having a penalty removed, the penalty was removed a month or two ago. We hadn’t built any backlinks to the site in those months, but yet Matt Cutts has now deemed the site as violating the Google T&Cs, so the question is, does Matt Cutts not trust his Spam team? Or does he go as far as abusing his power and disregard his own T&Cs in a personal vendetta?

    In the tweet he specifically pointed out a site I sold on Flippa, I don’t really understand the purpose of his tweet, more than likely a “your card is marked” type warning, but it does indicate just how they will look past the information they know about you in their system and take an interest in what you do outside of Google’s own properties. Judging people by what they do outside of Google doesn’t seem like something Google should be interested in, but we are learning the true depth of how they operate here and the barriers they cross.

    Domain contact information


    As far as I can tell, only one site was hit which didn’t have my contact information in the domain and was not in my WMT account. I don’t believe domain privacy hides your information securely, it is unreliable. I would bet my left testicle that Google has managed to record the domain contact information somehow and will be able to track all online properties with your name. Using web 2.0s as moneysites and dropping in iframes or faking the domain contact information may be the only ways of stopping an attack if you’re targeted.

    What was not attacked


    Whether he found these sites or not is hard to prove, it could be that he simply eased off going full retard, but there is a pattern in the attacks and it is fairly simple in essence. All of my sites which ticked these boxes were hit with manual penalties;


    • Domain contact information contained my name – including privacy
    • Was present in one of my webmaster tools accounts or analytics
    • Was connected to my name in some way

    Sites which did not have my name in the domain contact information(including those without privacy) and sites which I did not have Google analytics or webmaster tools installed and sites which did not have a connection to my name were not hit.

    What this proves is that Google DOES track your your webmaster tools accounts and will put effort into attacking you on a level beyond their own services by searching for your name online, which includes your activity on sites not related to Google. Most seasoned marketers may already feel they knew this, but it is important to get the facts on these things and see just how far Google has come.

    I did a full blog post about what I found on my blog, I am hesitating to post the link though. I'll see what the mods say first.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Matt Cutt is really flexing his muscles

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    I am just gonna tell you that 95% of what you just laid down is true. It is good that you wrote this cause my English is not that good, so I probably wouldn't be able to explain all this as you did. Good post

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Yes and " Bart" also said not to buy from any sellers who use gmail.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by TheUnborn View Post
    Yes and " Bart" also said not to buy from any sellers who use gmail.
    That is a very very important point I didn't think of.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    IDK about you guys, but I'm not really surprised... Afterall, we are talking about the big G, not just a regular SE.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    I bet he was bullied all day long when he was a kid and that left him with some traumas. He probably has a small cock too. So he does what he can

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by omaron View Post
    I bet he was bullied all day long when he was a kid and that left him with some traumas. He probably has a small cock too. So he does what he can
    ) Now you're on his list!

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    I hope you're drunk again Gorang, and what you're saying is shit. Beacuse I wouldn't like to believe that it's true...

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Nice info op.
    I didnt know you were agentblackhat.
    Anyway, time to move from g webmaster/analytics!

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    In my opinion Google is really heading towards the biggest lawsuits regarding data privacy/monopoly abuse.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Matt Cutt, is a good guy to be honest.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Think about this, if half of what OP stated is true (probably all of it because it seems google is getting more desperate in eliminating what they call "webspam") it would really be no suprise if the recent "takedowns" are connected to the use of gmail. I'm no lawyer but it can't be legal that a mail service provider can scan emails in an individual-related way to track activities/property of certain persons.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Actually I'm not that surprised about this.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    in my opinion its just matter of time till matt hits someone with resource/power/money and hell of attitude and ego...like it was with kim dotcom.... who kills matt's present and future with lawsuits and ruin his future career to hell...
    cuz certainly someone with power can easily fuck him around with all privacy abuse he is doing...
    him messaging on op's original twiter is proof that he does some real illegal shit to find his identity without a legal warrant !

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by gorang View Post

    In preparation for this I had several layers of anonymity setup, I talk about this in more detail on my blog, hopefully BHW mods will allow me to post at the bottom.
    There goes your anonymity.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    btw OP will you mention what kind of anonimity you used?

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    It's strange but this latest action seems so personal by Matt's team. Does this mean they are winning or are they losing to have gone to such extreme measures to take down individual blackhatters? Seems desperate as though the message is more important.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by innocent_kid View Post
    btw OP will you mention what kind of anonimity you used?
    What I meant by layers of anonymity was that I had sites using unnatural linkbuilding methods in plain sight, then site with domain privacy, sites with separate wmt accounts, sites without my contact details, privacy, no wmt or google affilation but a connection to my name. Layers of difficulty for Google to make a connection between me and the site. I got to see how deep they dared to go. About 10-20 websites have been penalized, one which had nothing but my name attached to it, however I did login to the WMT account governing it from the same IP i logged into my own WMT account. Something to think about.

    Think about this too, when sending disavow files to Google, they say to link your google drive containing a list of the links you tried to get removed. So they actively have access to all this information, why not use it when penalized someone specifically?

    IMO, our anonymity from Google is the most important aspect of organic search for blackhatters in 2014

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by bertbaby View Post
    It's strange but this latest action seems so personal by Matt's team. Does this mean they are winning or are they losing to have gone to such extreme measures to take down individual blackhatters? Seems desperate as though the message is more important.
    I think its more to do with the mess that is Google's algorithm.

    People say Matt is using scare tactics by tweeting the Anglo rank tweet, I think its the opposite, I think he does actually have that power now and he has to exercise it because the algorithm is such a mess. I think he is actually being arrogant in that tweet, its not just a front. But its not because he has this power that he tweets it, its because he has to take us down because the impact on SERPs has never been greater.

    Google wouldn't hire a shit load of manual raters and start manually filtering niches such as payday loans if the algorithm could take care of it.

    It wasn't too long after Panda/Penguin that we saw Google panicking and beginning to manually change the SERPs, I think this is because they realized that they had to act quickly because of the terrible state it was in.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by gorang View Post
    It wasn't too long after Panda/Penguin that we saw Google panicking and beginning to manually change the SERPs, I think this is because they realized that they had to act quickly because of the terrible state it was in.
    Well if what you are saying is true,and time will tell, then they lost because a manual solution cannot compensate for a failing algorithm, after all that was their claim to fame and competitive advantage over the Yahoo's of the world. On the other hand perhaps they are getting their hands dirty to figure out how to improve the algorithm but in case this is all very interesting.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Its hard to believe that they target people so closely. If this is true and people can prove they target people the world will shake for a moment.
    Anyway you said you received a twitter message "Two days later I get a tweet from Matt Cutts directly" What did it say?


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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    I don't get it, you keep sending him messages and messing with him and now the majority of your sites are busted.

    Would it be smarter to sit down quietly and bank while some other sucker make those kind of experiments?

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by gorang View Post
    I think its more to do with the mess that is Google's algorithm.

    People say Matt is using scare tactics by tweeting the Anglo rank tweet, I think its the opposite, I think he does actually have that power now and he has to exercise it because the algorithm is such a mess. I think he is actually being arrogant in that tweet, its not just a front. But its not because he has this power that he tweets it, its because he has to take us down because the impact on SERPs has never been greater.

    Google wouldn't hire a shit load of manual raters and start manually filtering niches such as payday loans if the algorithm could take care of it.

    It wasn't too long after Panda/Penguin that we saw Google panicking and beginning to manually change the SERPs, I think this is because they realized that they had to act quickly because of the terrible state it was in.
    The sole existence of manual interventions shows how broken their system is, because the only purpose of an algorithm is to automate a defined action regulation for the solution of a problem (=rank sites).

    But frankly this isn't a new problem. Link Networks and Spamtools have been around for many years, why did they start do get so aggressive lately?

    If the Organic Results are getting worse (=by ranking "spam"), they directly profit by achieving higher CTR's on their ads, and i think most people don't notice the degrade in organic search because they won't know that there are better results if G doesn't show them.
    Last edited by Winternacht; 12-16-2013 at 02:52 PM.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    If Google is prepared to go to such lengths to penalise people just based on their name and what they are connected to, it will probably turn a lot more people that have tried spam links into full black hat seos. As it would make it too much of a risk to follow the long term white hat methods, if you think you have been targeted.

    Using black hat techniques and going fully anonymous may be the only way to operate. So Google will have to be careful who they "target" or they could create more of that which they are hoping to destroy!

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Thanks for this interesting story.
    But I hope that all other members know very well to separate white hat projects from black hat projects.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by karibo View Post
    Its hard to believe that they target people so closely. If this is true and people can prove they target people the world will shake for a moment.
    Anyway you said you received a twitter message "Two days later I get a tweet from Matt Cutts directly" What did it say?

    From my blog:

    thetweet.png

    After this, three WMTs accounts had multiple unnatural links messages.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Actually google did not target the SPAM, but trying to get SEOs money. What OP says is a proof for my words (just next proof). Possibly their team have a list with the top SEO money makers and attack them personally. The best links today are paid links and I can send tons of proofs for this (the internet association)! Paid pages can be very easy ranked with SPAM and this is fact. Happy money making google - I hope you have ordered trailer hearse .

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    There is one other area to consider also.

    Mobile technology attempts to synch all accounts which for me was a no no. I didn't want private Facebook, work emails, work Facebook, and work twitters synching.

    As far as mobile goes I keep it isolated and do not activate GPS (which didn't matter as google still geolocated my search results etc)

    Everybody makes mistakes with that regard and the more information online the more chances for overlaps to occur untill your true identity will be found by a good analyst.

    In fact off the top of my head is youtube, how many of us have an aged personal youtube which has either been rerolled and renamed for work, or indeed been accessed using the same mac-address as other work accounts.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by gorang View Post
    From my blog:

    thetweet.png

    After this, three WMTs accounts had multiple unnatural links messages.
    Kinda of creepy being stalked by Matt Cutts. Can the NSA be far behind or maybe he just thinks you're cute?

    I think this is proof that blackhat seo methods were more cost effective than Adword campaigns and they had to raise the ante some to protect their pot of gold.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    very nice post gorang, thank you. this is just more evidence that they are shitting their pants..so lets get to work again:
    @matt
    challenge-accepted.jpg

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    So to summarize, if you troll Matt Cutts on twitter, Matt might troll you back showing how easy it is to roll you up, but Google's desperate, so stop using gmail and wmt, and then you can troll Matt Cutts on twitter all you want!
    As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble. -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Gorang, I'd like to tell you that I can personally confirm almost all you posted above and that you did a great job compiling this and transmitting this information.

    I am not going to go into details, but many years ago I did a similar test.

    Matt Cutts tracked me down and sent me a personal message, he was polite, asked me to fix something I had done and after I fixed it, he acknowledged my fix, and never pursued me again and overall there was nothing "evil" about the ordeal. Don't ask me what I did or how they tracked me down, I'm keeping this to myself for when I write my memoirs one day (haha, jk, fuck memoirs). All I'm gonna say is it wasn't illegal, but it was a kick in the nuts for google at the time, cuz they were really proud of something that I was proud to break.

    BUT.

    I can personally atest to what gorang has posted here: he CAN and WILL track you down if he wants to, including what they probably did via Anglo Rank: using fucking Gmail.

    He did nothing evil in my case, didn't carpet bomb my sites banning them all or nothing like that, but it was interesting to find out that if you do poke his ass too close he'll kick you while calling you by your name.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    that is f'd up man. Now what ? Now that we know this information what should we do with it? As a group?as a people?

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    in my opinion this is wht mattcuts did
    got your ip list from wmt
    kicked anything associatied with that ips(added ur ip to their spam ip list)
    than checked ur emails associated.. scanned them on facebook or twiter
    got ur real name real twitter
    and msged u
    ....
    when u make new wmts and stuff
    do it from proxies or rdps

    Quote Originally Posted by gorang View Post
    I think its more to do with the mess that is Google's algorithm.

    People say Matt is using scare tactics by tweeting the Anglo rank tweet, I think its the opposite, I think he does actually have that power now and he has to exercise it because the algorithm is such a mess. I think he is actually being arrogant in that tweet, its not just a front. But its not because he has this power that he tweets it, its because he has to take us down because the impact on SERPs has never been greater.

    Google wouldn't hire a shit load of manual raters and start manually filtering niches such as payday loans if the algorithm could take care of it.

    It wasn't too long after Panda/Penguin that we saw Google panicking and beginning to manually change the SERPs, I think this is because they realized that they had to act quickly because of the terrible state it was in.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Tired of talking about an individual from Google, start ignoring him, stop following his tweets and you will be able to live better. You guys are giving him an undue importance! He is just an employee that can be replaced anytime. Nothing is guaranteed! Let Google play its games and let SEOs do what they have always been doing.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack



    Once I tried to use spam to rank a website in Google (as you know this is against their TOS), since then Matt Cutts has been chasing me on a Google Street View car.
    Last edited by thisigor; 12-16-2013 at 04:01 PM.
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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    I guess you should have stayed under the radar mate, you were openly sending provocation to him almost everyday.

    The mindset of a blakhat is to stay under the radar mate, couldn't be one of your friends who outted you ? do you trust your friends ? have you checked their history ?

    Logs and computers never forget, you might have mistakenly forgotten (7 or 8 years ago) linking your real profile with your blackhat websites. All they had to do is dig a little deeper and find a connection between your real identity and your blackhat profile.

    (Ps : Tweets are searchable there are no needs to blur your twitter profile).

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    By the way Matt Cutts I know you gonna read this so here's a request: free link trade on the WWW. Links should be traded freely, links are equity. You're not quite the bolshevik and the centralized link economy has already gone bust. Sure you knew that already, so cheers to the new and free WWW where links are oficially a free market currency.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    What has surprised me the last few days, is that people STILL trust Google.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Forget anonymity. Theres only obscurity. Even if you opt out of all G products, they'll still be able to track you if your not behind the great wall

    Most people are using Search, Gmail,

    Installing Chrome, Earth...

    Using Android phones!

    G is also a domain registrar, with tools at least as developed as Netcomber. Webmasters all using GWT, GA, CDN,

    They also deanonymize search and other traffic (browser fingerprinting, beacons). Their capabilities must be way better than what Adobe have gained through buying Omniture (who bought Touch Clarity)

    Who knows if they have anything to track packets/wire through telco/isp arrangements & companies/software they acquired.

    Amazing what metadata throws up for profiling purposes.

    Really, its more than naive for anyone to act as if or think its 1996 still. The internet is revealing itself for what it has been for a long time: an identity based platform. G, FB etc are all key elements for the establishment interests in their goal of some kind of global multilevel governance for the web

    Opinion piece over. I agree with you OP, but also with others here: this is spammy to G these days.
    It will only get worse.

    My thinking is that G will eventually eliminate (by punishing and making irrelevant) all hyperlinks. When they consider they have "Semantic" down pat, then G will decide what relevant other content to show you with some kind of dynamically created link through them (theres probably a US patent already).

    Thats where personalisation ends up, to my mind. And yes, thats editorial power moving into censorship. Except it will be commodified in the form of some great new service, with {insert here} advantages over hyperlinks
    Last edited by phracktl; 12-16-2013 at 05:37 PM.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeouth II View Post
    Google is making SEO harder and harder day by day.
    No they're not....

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by bartosimpsonio View Post
    No they're not....
    so true... google loves links pocking back to websites. google machines are targeting the same pattern of backlinking strategies. if back linking is done by SEO tools like SeNuke, UD then there are 100's of people using same templates and pattern to create backlinks which surely trigger their machine algorithm and this is what google is trying to hunt down.
    Yes there are evidence where Matt's team is manually reviewing websites and possibly they are going after person to person.

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by zeetee View Post
    so true... google loves links pocking back to websites. google machines are targeting the same pattern of backlinking strategies. if back linking is done by SEO tools like SeNuke, UD then there are 100's of people using same templates and pattern to create backlinks which surely trigger their machine algorithm and this is what google is trying to hunt down.
    Yes there are evidence where Matt's team is manually reviewing websites and possibly they are going after person to person.
    100%. But it is getting harder in that there are higher barriers of entry to newbies/the less well resourced (technical, financial, competitive) than even 18 months ago

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    Default Re: This is what happens when you bait Matt Cutts into an attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Winternacht View Post
    The sole existence of manual interventions shows how broken their system is, because the only purpose of an algorithm is to automate a defined action regulation for the solution of a problem (=rank sites).

    But frankly this isn't a new problem. Link Networks and Spamtools have been around for many years, why did they start do get so aggressive lately?

    If the Organic Results are getting worse (=by ranking "spam"), they directly profit by achieving higher CTR's on their ads, and i think most people don't notice the degrade in organic search because they won't know that there are better results if G doesn't show them.
    I wish I could give you more thanks

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