A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

 

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Hi, Just realized that tomorrow is exactly 17 years since I started in IM. 25th ...
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    Default A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Hi,

    Just realized that tomorrow is exactly 17 years since I started in IM. 25th May 1996. Pre Google. Keyword stuffing, buying banner space, gaming Lycos and Alta Vista. I had just been turned down for a promotion at work and really needed the extra cash. In my mind (like so many people applying for a big promotion) the expected pay rise was already spent. I needed that extra cash. I saw a news program about the burgeoning .com boom (there was one on every 20 minutes back then) and asked around *quot;How did these guys make money*quot;.
    I didn't have a *quot;big idea*quot; but I was told that piggy backing on other peoples ideas as someone who could market for them was a great way to get a head start. The word *quot;affiliate*quot; was never used - but that's what it was.

    On 25th May I bought my first domain and spent about 3 weeks trying to set up a website on it selling shoes by mail order as a sort of affiliate with a handshake deal from the shoe makers (which they honoured for as long as I had the site). I made my first few quid (I'm British) in August of that year and by Christmas was making almost 50% of my income online. I was earning a LOT more than the lady who got the promotion.

    Back to today (wibbly screen...wooh woooh wibbly screen)

    Today this site is full of *quot;Oh noes. .*** is dying. Is there still any value in link building? - Shall I go back to stacking shelves in the supermarket*quot;?

    Other sites (ones full of self righteous *quot;johnny come lately's*quot;) - and yes I'm talking about you among others Mr Fishkin - actually feed the flames.
    *quot;Tidy up your act. Do this - do that - this WON'T WORK anymore.*quot;
    And it's the use of these empirical statements that REALLY winds me up.

    Penguin 2.0 is ONGOING - the dust hasn't settled yet, the cards are STILL BEING SHUFFLED yet I see *** after *** claiming to have found the *quot;golden answer*quot; already.
    How? How the feck did they do that when the index is still very much in flux - and will be for many days to come?
    What exactly have these people extrapolated so far from a shuffling index.
    If they played poker could they tell if they would have the best dealt hand while the cards are being shuffled?
    (In case you are wondering the answer is *quot;No*quot;)

    Here's a post with perspective. I left the links in on purpose (they don't lead to any sites of mine but to authority *** sites) See just how much the world has changed in the last ten years (no...not )
    THE POST

    Look at the shocking news I read today (then please read the summary at the bottom)
    *#8220;With the latest update Google is looking to increase the value of authority sites. Sites that have links from other authority sites and have good quality content themselves may well be rewarded with an increase in search engine ranking while those that rely on links from irrelevant sites may well suffer as a result of the latest update*#8221;
    Penguin 2.0?
    Nope. This is the *#8220;Google Bourbon*#8221; update from 2004. It was the *#8220;End of ****#8221;

    Ok what about this then...

    *quot;This latest update is the ultimate anti spam sub algorithm. The most severe slap Google has ever given the the *** community. Bad links *#8211; poor context and poor surrounding content will be for the long drop and Google sets out to clean house.
    Sites where our algorithms had very low trust in the inlinks or the outlinks of that site. Examples that might cause that include excessive reciprocal links, linking to spammy neighborhoods on the web, or link buying/selling.
    So this is Penguin 2.0 then?
    Nope This is the *#8220;Google Big Daddy*#8221; update from 2005. It was the *#8220;End of ****#8221;


    Ok - what about THIS one them...

    Google latest update seem to prefer older sites in some cases, although it is all still at an early stage.
    We have been seeing some updates in Page ranks and the like, but fortunately going towards the positive point and taking the link building process into consideration. Poor quality links are being penalized as best practice for *** is being rewarded (at last). The quality and relevancy of content is also part of this update.
    So this has GOT to be Penguin then. Or maybe Panda (it mentions content)?
    Nope this is a *#8220;Google Dewey*#8221; update from 2008. It was widely regarded as the *#8220;End of ****#8221;



    • Is this a full and complete list?
    • How many updates has Google had that have said much the same thing?

    *#8220;No*#8221; and *#8220;plenty*#8221; are the answers you are looking for.


    And the unasked question?

    Yes *#8211; Almost all the updates say more or less the exact same thing. They go back to 2003 with *#8220;Fritz*#8221;. Their have been many since.

    A reasonably full list of those updates that the SE giant will openly discuss is here

    Some Serious Points

    The update has only just been rolled out less than 48 hours ago. It will take up to a week for the dust to settle. Don*#8217;t extrapolate anything yet. The indexes are in flux. The results are best measured once they have settled.
    Google has made many (many) changes, all supposedly to the same aim. While the indexes are getting a little better and quality is slowly winning out over spam *#8211; it*#8217;s pretty easy to see it*#8217;s a war of attrition. No *#8220;one*#8221; update ever changes anything like as much of the index landscape as the noise disgruntled ****#8217;s make would seem to suggest.

    Links win *#8211; always have - always will. Think a few hundred quality rather than tens of thousands of rubbish links. No news here. Nothing to see*#8230;move on.

    Of course I will take a look at Penguin 2.0 in due time. I*#8217;ll wait for the updates to complete and the shuffling to settle down. That may take a good few days yet. Be wary of the *#8220;gurus*#8221; who tell you they know all about this or any other update almost as soon as the rollout has started. They don*#8217;t and indeed can*#8217;t know the ramifications as it is currently an on-going process.
    Now *#8211; Penguin 2.0 is a deck of cards*#8230; in mid shuffle


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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Thanks Scritty a top post, relevant too as I started in this game too in 95/96 so know and appreciate where you are coming from...

    Scritty uses prudence and waits then...

    *quot;Hay see all those young Heifers at the bottom of the hill, lets rum down and get a few of them*quot;. The Old bull looks at the young bull and says ....... Lets walk and get them all....

    In other words DO NOT PANIC as there is way to work it all out...
    This member has been permanently banned from BHW.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    excellent post. Even though I have not been in the game as long as you (1.5 years) everyone needs to understand that there will always be that *quot;*** is dead*quot; day every now and then. Its the real *** guys that analyze and come up with their own theories that succeed. To sum it up real blackhatters will succeed *#8203; no matter what google throws at them.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    *** will never die

    Its all about how you do it, Penguin 2.0 has been a good update for me

    I now ranking for keywords which i have never ranked in top 100 before
    Last edited by sensitiveheart_4; 05-24-2013 at 11:53 AM.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Pretty well said man!

    And I am from long time in this game and have seen lots of things, but *** still works and as long as there are Search Engines there will be and ***. It is inevitable part!

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    I completely agree with you, the only reason these 'industry leaders' preach this stuff is for marketing as they are seen to be abiding by the Google guidelines etc. You can spend your days writing article after article but the only reason you will get more and more traffic is because you get LINKS. Links are what Google's algorithm is patented on and how the whole infrastructure was designed to read. They are not going to go away and will always be vital for rankings.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Abso-frickin-lutely!

    What frustrates me more than anything, is that through all those updates and changes (I've been doing this since '04 - not quite as long as you), great money can still be made and good businesses can still be built. SO MANY people come to IM without treating it like a real business; expecting everything to fall into their laps... That's just not the real world. You're going to have learn to deal with a whole load of crap and problems if you want a long-term successful business.

    i think the best advice I could give someone new to the game, is to really get your head around thinking of this as a business. Build a company. Look for the angles that others aren't taking. Use ***** differently to everyone else; be creative. Think bigger and wider... Make lots of mistakes and don't expect to make a profit at the start!

    Good thread Scritty!

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by jascoken View Post
    Abso-frickin-lutely!

    What frustrates me more than anything, is that through all those updates and changes (I've been doing this since '04 - not quite as long as you), great money can still be made and good businesses can still be built. SO MANY people come to IM without treating it like a real business; expecting everything to fall into their laps... That's just not the real world. You're going to have learn to deal with a whole load of crap and problems if you want a long-term successful business.

    i think the best advice I could give someone new to the game, is to really get your head around thinking of this as a business. Build a company. Look for the angles that others aren't taking. Use ***** differently to everyone else; be creative. Think bigger and wider... Make lots of mistakes and don't expect to make a profit at the start!

    Good thread Scritty!
    Try telling the twats at Warrior that.
    Been trolled by some dildo there who links to the biggest article of fear mongering crud you would ever wish to see.
    Guess experience of this sort of thing happening over and over again - and amounting every single time to *quot;not a lot*quot; doesn't play into whatever snake oil he's trying to sell.

    Still - all you can do is put the documented evidence in front of people. If they choose to ignore it and say *quot;but this time it's different*quot; (and they say that every bloody time as well) we'll have to put up with this doom and gloom crap.

    Got to laugh.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    My new site will have;

    1. quality original content updated regularly.

    2. contextual links from a variety of sources.

    Thats it. There are other facets of *** I'm taking into consideration, but that'll be the basis.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I have anything to fear from any google algorithm update.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Hope all the *quot;*** is dead*quot; preachers get out the game and open up some more serp positions for us all to bank ;}

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by dastard View Post
    My new site will have;

    1. quality original content updated regularly.

    2. contextual links from a variety of sources.

    Thats it. There are other facets of *** I'm taking into consideration, but that'll be the basis.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I have anything to fear from any google algorithm update.
    Well, for someone who joined a year ago, that seems a bizarre statement to make...

    Have you read any of the countless studies on penalised 'white-hat' sites?

    If I had a dollar for every client that says they've done white-hat only, or even more actually rarely, STUCK to whitehat (what the hell does that mean anyway?) then I'd have made a lot more than I actually did...

    read between the lines: NO, it does not guarantee ANY protection from Googles pseudo-random effects and algo changes; you're giving them more intelligence that they deserve.

    And please; I'm not just ranting here. Take this seriously... If you think that *quot;playing by Google's rules*quot; will protect you then you will come seriously unstuck. I'm not saying don't follow 'whitehat' philosophy - that's your business choice and prerogative... But expecting them to leave you alone because of that could drop you in the slop!

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Excellent post Scritty. It's been barely 2 days since the update and people are already claiming they know how to *quot;beat*quot; it. The truth is, sites are still constantly shuffling around and I hope no one falls into the *quot;BEAT PENGUIN WITH MY BLUEPRINT*quot; bandwagon. Everytime an update happens, a few *quot;This is the end of ****quot; topics inevitably pop up. This post should be where newbies are referred to everytime an update happens.
    Last edited by FuryKyle; 05-24-2013 at 02:17 PM.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    After Penguin 2.0 all my sites down from page 1

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    I'm at a loss for what happened with Google. 10 keyword in the top 10 on bing, 1 on Google. I suppose Bing is worth something.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by jascoken View Post
    Well, for someone who joined a year ago, that seems a bizarre statement to make...

    Have you read any of the countless studies on penalised 'white-hat' sites?

    If I had a dollar for every client that says they've done white-hat only, or even more actually rarely, STUCK to whitehat (what the hell does that mean anyway?) then I'd have made a lot more than I actually did...

    read between the lines: NO, it does not guarantee ANY protection from Googles pseudo-random effects and algo changes; you're giving them more intelligence that they deserve.

    And please; I'm not just ranting here. Take this seriously... If you think that *quot;playing by Google's rules*quot; will protect you then you will come seriously unstuck. I'm not saying don't follow 'whitehat' philosophy - that's your business choice and prerogative... But expecting them to leave you alone because of that could drop you in the slop!
    Coming from a person with all your stars and colours and shit, I'll indeed re-examine my position.

    Seems I have some reading to do....

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by dastard View Post
    Coming from a person with all your stars and colours and shit, I'll indeed re-examine my position.

    Seems I have some reading to do....
    Great attitude

    Nothing wrong with wanting it to be clean and tidy - but it's no guarantee of anything.
    White Hat means noting to google - it's not a phrase they use much and certainly not one they endorse of condone
    The long and the short of it - link building is link building.
    While you might lower risk by staying clean no way do you remove it.
    The flip side is you rank a lot slower and your market is moving on the whole time you are crawling your way up serps

    But even that is a generalization.

    Wish it was clearer to define - but Google quite deliberately obfuscate the proces to prevent it being gamed to overtly.

    Scritty

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Hello and thank you for your post, the only thing that everyone should know in IM specialy in ***, There will be battle between Seach engine and IM Geek, So every time search engine make update make sure Always will learn their own game. *quot;Red lines. Found to penetrate ..*quot;

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by dastard View Post
    Coming from a person with all your stars and colours and shit, I'll indeed re-examine my position.

    Seems I have some reading to do....
    'Stars and colours and shit' ... I love it! :-)

    Seriously; understand that Google is a commercial entity trying to make money - very successfully -and with its own agendas. It's nothing personal with them. They roll-out changes to try and 'improve' some aspect of their business-model (and it might not be anything to do with real search quality') and there is always massive collateral damage; even with the 'best' of sites.

    Don't think like an IM'er; don't be a one-string guitar... Think about how you would build and protect a real business; widen your sales funnell and diversify your traffic/income streams.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    So long as there is a search engine, it has to use some sort of algo to measure which sites rank highly in it's index.

    There will always be a way to manipulate this, you just have to fulfil the criteria on which said search engine set.

    *** can never die

    Good, well informed post Scritty

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by jambox View Post
    So long as there is a search engine, it has to use some sort of algo to measure which sites rank highly in it's index.

    There will always be a way to manipulate this, you just have to fulfil the criteria on which said search engine set.

    *** can never die

    Good, well informed post Scritty
    Just like the Wizard of Oz - there's always someone behind the curtain doing something.
    The idea that Google is flawless in execution is ridiculous. It has one of the most complex (mathematically at least) tasks to undertake. No one individual could hope to know or understand the ramifications of a tweak to the algo here or a nudge there. It's complexity piled on complexity.

    But underneath someone somewhere is pedalling like mad to both keep it *quot;making some kind of sense*quot; and keeping the likes of us from knowing too much.
    A method that can be understood to an extent via the results it produces.
    And while their is a method - there will be those who look to shortcut it. That's not just Google - that's the whole darn world!


    Scritty

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by cecle View Post
    I completely agree with you, the only reason these 'industry leaders' preach this stuff is for marketing as they are seen to be abiding by the Google guidelines etc. You can spend your days writing article after article but the only reason you will get more and more traffic is because you get LINKS. Links are what Google's algorithm is patented on and how the whole infrastructure was designed to read. They are not going to go away and will always be vital for rankings.
    Agree to 100% though i think that fresh 2.0 links ala senuke will be worthless soon

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    I too wonder about how fast people judge what Google has to offer. Moreover, I don't understand how so many fall for that *quot;expert analysis*quot;.

    Being on the algorithmic end, I can understand the scale of the problem Google is facing. Their algorithms are ill, and they try to cure the symptoms. The illness I'm speaking about is the backlink based approach - its no longer serves its purpose, moreover it hurts the ******** as a whole.

    How many spun articles have you posted during the last year? 10, 100, 100, 10000?
    How many useful articles have you posted during the last year? 1, 10, 100?

    In the best case 1 of 10 articles is not a garbage on the ********, and the attribution for that state of things goes to Google. They try to solve the problem they created by themselves. The thing is, they cannot solve that problem without changing their approach entirely. All they can do is close some of the holes, and the worse part, once they close a hole, 10 new holes appear (or the old holes open once again).

    So no matter how Google calls its patches, you can be assured that *** will never die as long as backlinks are the heart of search engines approach.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by lancis View Post
    you can be assured that *** will never die as long as backlinks are the heart of search engines approach.
    I agree - but will add that I was doing *** several years before I gave a toss about Google.
    Alta Vista, Yahoo, Lycos, Microsoft Search ... all open to *** - whether it's backlink based or not.


    Whatever metric they use - *** will exist. As long as their are search engines - people will try and optimize their site/method.approach to marketing to get a better ranking in them - link based or not.

    Blind keyword stuffing was all it took 17 years ago (white text on a white background stuffed with relative words and phrases - only seen if you *quot;drag clicked*quot; your mouse across the page)
    The *quot;META DATA*quot; was important - and then it's synergy with your own site content.
    Then speed and for a while even server type. Sitemaps were the absolute top for almost a year. Optimized site maps that attracted the crawlers and were as complete as possible. Many sites didn't have them (none of this easy *quot;Wordpress site map*quot; plugin back then - you wrote your owm...URL by URL)
    Wierd stuff like micro adjustments to a page to *quot;freshen*quot; it worked for a while.
    Some people had *****/methods/systems for all this stuff (*** automation) Keyword relevancy was quite early on the agenda (very simple - but initially very effective)

    All of this was years before Google cared about links. All of it was ***..and all of it could be gamed by those in the know.
    Welcome to 1996

    Scritty

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    I started in 96 too with my first dating site. I wasn't really into the *** side of things back then. For me it was getting listed in Dmoz. That was the be all and end all. Get listed on there and you were sorted! I even became an editor for the UK dating region. Geezz, I just realized I was blackhatting back then without even knowing it LOL.

    The Yahoo directory was another major player too. Dmoz and Yahoo would list sites alphabetically and we were all scrambling to come up with domain names beginning with 'A'. So you had Alpha dating, which was knocked down by Abacus dating which was then knocked down by Aardvark dating, seriously I kid you not. Aardvark dating FFS! The numerals could top the list, A1dating.com was created, A100 and so on.

    If you chose a domain name beginning with X, Y or Z, you were screwed at the bottom of the listings. Then we had Goto.com which became Overture com which sold out to Yahoo. That was the first of the Adwords style of search and I made a mint with this. Oh happy days...

    You know I did try the white text on white background keyword stuffing too. What's more frightening is there are sites still out there doing this today.

    But yeah, while G bases its results on links we'll keep on fighting it with link building. Or they could go back to the directory route - I've already secured A1paydayloans just in case



    Quote Originally Posted by Scritty View Post
    I agree - but will add that I was doing *** several years before I gave a toss about Google.
    Alta Vista, Yahoo, Lycos, Microsoft Search ... all open to *** - whether it's backlink based or not.


    Whatever metric they use - *** will exist. As long as their are search engines - people will try and optimize their site/method.approach to marketing to get a better ranking in them - link based or not.

    Blind keyword stuffing was all it took 17 years ago (white text on a white background stuffed with relative words and phrases - only seen if you *quot;drag clicked*quot; your mouse across the page)
    The *quot;META DATA*quot; was important - and then it's synergy with your own site content.
    Then speed and for a while even server type. Sitemaps were the absolute top for almost a year. Optimized site maps that attracted the crawlers and were as complete as possible. Many sites didn't have them (none of this easy *quot;Wordpress site map*quot; plugin back then - you wrote your owm...URL by URL)
    Wierd stuff like micro adjustments to a page to *quot;freshen*quot; it worked for a while.
    Some people had *****/methods/systems for all this stuff (*** automation) Keyword relevancy was quite early on the agenda (very simple - but initially very effective)

    All of this was years before Google cared about links. All of it was ***..and all of it could be gamed by those in the know.
    Welcome to 1996

    Scritty

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Thanks Guys! I've truly enjoyed this walk down memory lane
    Laughing at all the funny stuff I thought was so 'cool' at the time to get ahead, as I too had websites with A1, keyword stuffed, and used white lettering. Was so proud that I finally got on DMOZ, ha ha ha.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    There are Really few members here I read their thread by their name not the the thread title. And Scritty is one of them

    Gr8 Thread and there is a lot of infoz here to think about. RESPECT !

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by jascoken View Post
    Abso-frickin-lutely!

    What frustrates me more than anything, is that through all those updates and changes (I've been doing this since '04 - not quite as long as you), great money can still be made and good businesses can still be built. SO MANY people come to IM without treating it like a real business; expecting everything to fall into their laps... That's just not the real world. You're going to have learn to deal with a whole load of crap and problems if you want a long-term successful business.

    i think the best advice I could give someone new to the game, is to really get your head around thinking of this as a business. Build a company. Look for the angles that others aren't taking. Use ***** differently to everyone else; be creative. Think bigger and wider... Make lots of mistakes and don't expect to make a profit at the start!

    Good thread Scritty!
    You have been thanked 666 times......you must be Illuminati
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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    The great thing about being listed in DMOZ was when AOL used their listings; you got all that sweet AOL traffic, particularly the week after Christmas when all those people opened their brand new computers and did online searches for the first time ever.
    My first foray into automation was in the early 2000s (did everything by hand before that) - had a site building script that could churn out hundreds of interlinked sites in a few hours - god, Yahoo loved those sites.
    Thanks to Scritty for injecting some perspective into the panic. Just remember, in five years people will be moaning about the latest G algos, and many people will think *these* were the *quot;golden days*quot; of ***
    Last edited by reallife; 05-25-2013 at 04:47 PM.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Always enjoy reading your posts Scritty. You always have a great way of sorting through the bullshit and telling it like it is.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    well said mate, as long as search engines exist, there will be *** also.
    good content cant be judged from Google.
    if i start a philosophy site and start writing all my life philosophies , how can Google judge it? content is personal opinions and since we have democracy no one can judge or reject personal opinions.
    But how many people like it and refer it in their blogs makes my opinion popular and Google can judge only by that. what if i pay someone to refer me in their pages?
    No one can know it and as long as no one knows it have authority.
    Just focus on good content so people may refer to you, don't forget to make good quality link building , don't be afraid to put your hand in your pocket if needed to buy 1 quality backling instead of 10k crap backlinks, focus on public relationship so you get more connections and people are more available to link you in their blogs/sites.
    Let google update every day you have nothing to fear.
    I am not as old as you in *** guys, actually i am a child comparing to you.
    But i am ranking top 5 last 3 months in some very competitive keywords (penguin dropped me from #1 to #5 on 3 keywords but i am still waiting for dust to settle down)
    its ridiculous how veterans of *** get in panic from this. (or maybe they want to spread fear so people start buying services-not willing to insult any seller ofc.)
    and dont for get: we are pirates and pirates are not afraid of penguins or pandas.
    Last edited by leobar; 05-25-2013 at 08:19 AM.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by reallife View Post
    Just remember, in five years people will be moaning about the latest G algos, and many people will think *these* were the *quot;golden days*quot; of ***
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That much I guarantee.

    Nothing has changed dramatically - every update has been a tweak of certain indicators by a few percentage points from where we are sat as ***'s.
    We all know which way Google is trying to move - and we are all aware that they are having some success but there never has been a *quot;death of a method*quot; update and maybe their never will be.
    Remember - despite what Google's cuddly user policy says - they aren't in the business of giving users *quot;the best experience*quot; they are in the business of making money. There is a tipping point where more sophisticated methods of spam removal cost more than the extra revenue a cleaner index will make. You can be certain at that point they will stop. It's just business.

    They'll leave losing money to make a better product to companies like SAAB. (who folded..)

    Scritty

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    OP i like your POST with reference and congrats on your IM anniversiy it's bit late

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    Default A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Great post mate. +rep.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Great post as usual Scritty what people underestimate is how little google can actually change the serps.There are no go areas for G simply because the results would be like a lottery.Nowadays you cannot expect the golden key to publically posted,you need to get off your arse and test stuff out(how do you think methods are discovered).Those who simply act on what is posted on forums are already behind the curve.It's not a case of not sharing it a case of commonsense,eventually someone needs cash and offers a service and it comes out into the open.Suprisingly certain methods work very well and are nor complicated and are openly here.
    It's a game us against G,think about all their billions they have,we don't do bad.Alot of talk from G is to appease whitehatters who hang on every word matt cutts utters from his mouth.I have nothing against the guy he does his job,we do ours.It's all about money,first thing to remember is you're not taking money from your competitors you're taking it from google.They own the search engine and can do whatever the hell they want with it.

    One piece od advice to newbies would be look at scritty's posts and take them seriously(well most of them lol),out of all the members here a few are worth paying attention to scritty is one of them.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    There always will be something we could optimize: be it videos, apps, etc.

    Joking aside, I saw different results for my websites: few got hit, few went up in the serps.
    In coming weeks I will analyse all these changes and implement new strategies (I already can see main patterns: link diversification, anchor text diversification and link quality).

    A lot of guys are giving up, but I see this update as an opportunity to become much stronger in my field.

    P.S. Happy anniversary!
    Last edited by henrikas; 05-27-2013 at 06:32 AM.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    so me scritty and steelballs are the old farts of BHW! (I started late, in 99.)

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by henrikas View Post

    A lot of guys are giving up, but I see this update as an opportunity to become much stronger in my field.

    P.S. Happy anniversary!
    Great point. A lot of newbies and shortcut takers WILL be quitting now. And the changes required for most sites to actually benefit from these changes to the Google algo are not that drastic. Ironically oner of them is often *quot;more links...just better ones*quot; on top of sometimes adding a little content is the site is thin and diversifying ...generally adding a few percent of *** quality all around. THis will fix the vast majority of issues.

    But the point you make here is very valid. For those who know how this works - andf have seen these changes year after year after year - and know how this all works. This is more of an OPPORTUNITY than a slap.

    Wait for the dust to settle...then hit back HARD and by July/August your site could be better positioned than ever.

    Scritty

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by lancis View Post
    So no matter how Google calls its patches, you can be assured that *** will never die as long as backlinks are the heart of search engines approach.
    Not so after another 5 years...

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Google works more and more with pattern matching and recognition... and soon a software algo will be able to tell if a piece of content has depth in it or is all fluff or just spun crap of the same topic... just like they can detect bad grammar in a post just like the service PassGo*** can... they will get there and are probably already quite advanced in their AI... so, it will evolve to that point. And, then once that happens backlinks have no real meaning.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by vishyjames View Post
    Google works more and more with pattern matching and recognition... and soon a software algo will be able to tell if a piece of content has depth in it or is all fluff or just spun crap of the same topic... just like they can detect bad grammar in a post just like the service PassGo*** can... they will get there and are probably already quite advanced in their AI... so, it will evolve to that point. And, then once that happens backlinks have no real meaning.
    Ah - a logical non sequitur

    Google can understand prose - therefore backlinks have no meaning

    Spo following that logic..

    Water freezes at zero C... so elephants can ride skate boards

    Yes - Google will get better patch after patch. But in five years time there's five years worth of commission and slaes to make with what we've got now. Adapting to what *quot;might*quot; happen five years or more before it may possibly occur? That's no way to make money.
    As for your passgo*** comment - what a joke.
    Parsing prose for basic grammer is a very VERY simple thing to do. I mean stupidly simple.
    Google can do that already - have been able to for AGES (more than a decade)

    However DERIVING THE MEANING of free form prose is entirely different and probably a factor of many 1000's more complex - and the crap on the sales page is pure speculation.
    We are talking bleeding edger AI text/context analysis.
    Almost a Turing test for every page on the ********.
    The Loebner prize winning conversation parsing bots are ok..ish - but a human can see throu8gh them all - and *quot;game*quot; them withing 15-25 minutes. And they have years and years of AI boffins working on them. Google is going to need to SERIOUS processing and ******** bandwidth to afford every single of the trillion plus URL's on the ******** that sort of scrutiny..and why would they bother?
    Despite the crap - they aren't inthe business of providing a better user experience or *quot;policing the *********quot; -they are in the business of making their shareholders profit.
    Everything else is a (distant) 2nd to that prime goal

    If creating an uber parsing AI bot with multi language cross-topical and abstract AI processing abilities.... and iterating its use tens of billions of times a day DOESN'T MAKE THEM MORE IN REVENUE THAT IS COSTS TO DEVELOP OR MAINTAIN.. they won't f^cking bother.

    As soon as a slightly *quot;better*quot; index costs a little more than it makes in extra revenue...
    They won't bother making it.
    That's business

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    great post scritty. a little bit of no-nonsense feels good today

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    I think this post is dead on. People are making all kinds of assumptions on an update that may not even have peaked yet. I know in my niche there are people ranking high with keyword stuffing, spam links and obvious private blog networks. Yet they are still there after Penguin 2.0. However, I'm thinking something is going to hit them soon. However, whether it does or not, it will be a learning experience to find out what still works and adjust accordingly. Everyone is right that as long as there is a search engine algorithm in place, there will be a means to *** for it.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Great post! Always makes me laugh when I hear people say 'links don't work anymore - it's not the way to do it' etc. WTF do those people think the web (not the ********) is built with?! The very core fabric of http is links.

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    Default Re: A Long View Perspective on Penguin 2.0

    Thanks Scritty, As I am new to the *** world, and seeing a timeline of google updates helps me to better understand its attributes.
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