It is getting incredibly annoying to see all of these immature posts about the new Google update every time I log on to BHW. People are blaming this on Matt Cutts and creating obscene posts cursing the guy. I see people talking about dropping out of SEO, or straying away from Google and onto other search engines. Aren't you guys professionals?

Yes, this update does kind of suck, but this is business. In business, shit happens. A good business man will evaluate the situation and start drafting new plans and implementing them immediately. NO good business man takes a hit and then complains about it being the end of the world on a forum. I come to BHW to learn more and hear about the great finds of others. I do NOT log on here to see a bunch of professionals bitching about a recent hit.

It's embarrassing for BHW as a community to have tons of black hatters posting stuff about their business being completely ruined and their lives being over because of this Google update. We are black hatters. It's our job to remain confident and find the next new way to "beat the system." These posts are regressive and childish.

I GET IT. Your rankings dropped and, consequently, so did your income. Fix it! Any experienced SEO specialist has been hit by a panda update, the sandbox, or something that negatively effects their SERPs. You CAN get out of it. There is always a solution. Luckily, I wasn't hit by this one, but I was hit by the last one. After that, I developed a new SEO plan which is probably what saved me from this newest Panda/Penguin update.

This post may piss some people off, but it had to be said. Nothing ever goes as planned in business as business is a cut throat, sink or swim battle. Are you going to sink or swim?

Like I said today to some random old person I was passing on the street (in reference to SEO): "This is a game. It's a big game. Just remember that. It's a game that my livelihood depends on...but it's still a game."

Didn't we learn anything from Omar on The Wire? He said it all the time, when things would go bad for him or the people he jacked...it's all in the game.

It proves that in this business, mindset is more important than technique.

I hear you, but I think people have the right to voice a little frustration. I think the problem is that a lot of people don't look at it like trying to "beat the system." A lot of us are simply trying to provide a good experience for the people that visit our sites. Of course, we are also trying to profit from that good experience, but that doesn't make us evil webmasters.

People are pissed because this update didn't accomplish anything. Google didn't improve on the overall user experience, and that has us upset, which I think says a lot about some of us. I think if the update actually did get rid of the shitty sites you wouldn't see so many people bitching. It just gets sickening when completely worthless sites now occupy the top spots, while some of our quality sites sit at #48.

I'm not giving up (and I don't think most people are), but that doesn't mean we can't talk (or bitch) about it.

Originally Posted by Lowbrow

Like I said today to some random old person I was passing on the street (in reference to SEO): "This is a game. It's a big game. Just remember that. It's a game that my livelihood depends on...but it's still a game."

Didn't we learn anything from Omar on The Wire? He said it all the time, when things would go bad for him or the people he jacked...it's all in the game.

Exactly, this stuff happens. You can either complain about it or deal with it. Progression vs. Regression.

Originally Posted by audioguy

It proves that in this business, mindset is more important than technique.

Yep. I could reference the stories of many millionaires who failed 1000 times before they succeeded, but to avoid cliche motivational pitches, I won't.

Originally Posted by azguru

It's embarrassing for BHW as a community to have tons of black hatters posting stuff about their business being completely ruined and their lives being over because of this Google update. We are black hatters. It's our job to remain confident and find the next new way to "beat the system." These posts are regressive and childish.

I GET IT. Your rankings dropped and, consequently, so did your income. Fix it! Any experienced SEO specialist has been hit by a panda update, the sandbox, or something that negatively effects their SERPs. You CAN get out of it. There is always a solution. Luckily, I wasn't hit by this one, but I was hit by the last one. After that, I developed a new SEO plan which is probably what saved me from this newest Panda/Penguin update.

While I agree, websites are often infrastructure... loss of infrastructure can be very serious. Especially when there's thousands of man hours behind something.

Sometimes we/all of us need to to bitch and complain as it helps to relieve some of the stress of lost income. If it makes you so mad, don't read it. I read what I want on this forum and what I don't want to read, I ignore.

I think the amount of negativity surrounding this recent update is warranted. You're going to sit there and tell me this update has improved search results?

Please get off your high horse and come back to reality.

Originally Posted by Aullus

I hear you, but I think people have the right to voice a little frustration. I think the problem is that a lot of people don't look at it like trying to "beat the system." A lot of us are simply trying to provide a good experience for the people that visit our sites. Of course, we are also trying to profit from that good experience, but that doesn't make us evil webmasters.

People are pissed because this update didn't accomplish anything. Google didn't improve on the overall user experience, and that has us upset, which I think says a lot about some of us. I think if the update actually did get rid of the shitty sites you wouldn't see so many people bitching. It just gets sickening when completely worthless sites now occupy the top spots, while some of our quality sites sit at #48.

I'm not giving up (and I don't think most people are), but that doesn't mean we can't talk (or bitch) about it.

I agree that the new algo is shit and ineffective, but that's not my point. You don't get to choose what you are handed, only how you deal with it. Complaining accomplishes nothing.

Originally Posted by Expertpeon

While I agree, websites are often infrastructure... loss of infrastructure can be very serious. Especially when there's thousands of man hours behind something.

Once again, I agree completely BUT you have two options; give up and accept your losses, or rebuild and move forward. My post is not about the actual situation going on, it's about how everyone deals with it.

Originally Posted by manny521

Sometimes we/all of us need to to bitch and complain as it helps to relieve some of the stress of lost income. If it makes you so mad, don't read it. I read what I want on this forum and what I don't want to read, I ignore.

It doesn't make me mad, I just think it needs to be addressed. Imagine coming to BHW for the first time and seeing all these complaint threads. You would think the forum is teeming with amateurs.

Plus, this thread was a response to the SURPLUS of threads being posted. We really only need 2; one to complain about it, and one to discuss solutions.

ForBHW.jpg

I couldn't agree more!

Get DIRECT with your marketing, not PASSIVE like search engines! F**K Goog, and F**k this Matt whoever the shit he is, get to mass mailing and bulk socialing and STFU about google already!

Originally Posted by beakon

I think the amount of negativity surrounding this recent update is warranted. You're going to sit there and tell me this update has improved search results?

Please get off your high horse and come back to reality.

You are completely missing the point. I AGREE THAT THIS NEW ALGO IS SHIT. I have seen so many shitty sites in the top 10. Please read that loud and clear. I AM IN NO WAY DISPUTING THAT THIS UPDATE SUCKS. I am simply stating that there are proper ways to deal with negative hits in business -- Thus the reference to professionalism.

While I understand that there are some pissed off people but if you are being legit. You would have nothing to worry about. My sites were okay because I knew I was okay because I just build links naturally & add content, I know people always want a quick way out but honestly? What's it worth in the long run?

It's quite easy to say all that when you then say, "it didn't affect me". Hello. I get what you're saying, even respect to a degree, but when a person gets knocked for a loop like this they react. "To every action there's a reaction". It takes a while to regroup and venting is normal. Some may react more strongly than others, but we're all only human. "Scolding" sure doesn't help anyone.

Originally Posted by Needalead

While I understand that there are some pissed off people but if you are being legit. You would have nothing to worry about. My sites were okay because I knew I was okay because I just build links naturally & add content, I know people always want a quick way out but honestly? What's it worth in the long run?

You're naive and lying to yourself... the reason your sites are ok is because they weren't making enough to not be ok...
Hint: white hat SEO doesn't mean you're ok...

Originally Posted by azguru

It is getting incredibly annoying to see all of these immature posts about the new Google update every time I log on to BHW. People are blaming this on Matt Cutts and creating obscene posts cursing the guy. I see people talking about dropping out of SEO, or straying away from Google and onto other search engines. Aren't you guys professionals?

Yes, this update does kind of suck, but this is business. In business, shit happens. A good business man will evaluate the situation and start drafting new plans and implementing them immediately. NO good business man takes a hit and then complains about it being the end of the world on a forum. I come to BHW to learn more and hear about the great finds of others. I do NOT log on here to see a bunch of professionals bitching about a recent hit.

It's embarrassing for BHW as a community to have tons of black hatters posting stuff about their business being completely ruined and their lives being over because of this Google update. We are black hatters. It's our job to remain confident and find the next new way to "beat the system." These posts are regressive and childish.

I GET IT. Your rankings dropped and, consequently, so did your income. Fix it! Any experienced SEO specialist has been hit by a panda update, the sandbox, or something that negatively effects their SERPs. You CAN get out of it. There is always a solution. Luckily, I wasn't hit by this one, but I was hit by the last one. After that, I developed a new SEO plan which is probably what saved me from this newest Panda/Penguin update.

This post may piss some people off, but it had to be said. Nothing ever goes as planned in business as business is a cut throat, sink or swim battle. Are you going to sink or swim?

Dude, 90% of the people on this forum are children. Of course you are going to hear nothing but bitching and whining when something doesn't go their way.

Originally Posted by Cnotey

Dude, 90% of the people on this forum are children. Of course you are going to hear nothing but bitching and whining when something doesn't go their way.

I'm upset, and I have not seen ANY drop in revenue because of the work I did post feb...
I think every person who was doing well in this game is upset right now. Honestly, I have a MS in Nuclear Engineering from MIT, so it's not like I cannot make a good living no matter what I choose to do.

That being said:

I saw a site that was bought for $150k (EMD in a hyper competitive niche and had no backlinks before he bought it) drop from #1 (spent at least $25k/mth on backlinks for a year), to #11 in March, to #68 now.

He was making at least $20k/day in profit... now I'd guess about 1/20th that... and that's only because he's still #1 on bing/yahoo....

Seriously, can you even imagine that? That's a site with around 25 employees. The vast majority of them will be laid off within the month.
This is a market where you have to have your own Visa/MC ISO to operate in... and you cannot exactly move that to the next site down the line...

actually there's nothing wrong with whining as long as they take action. If everyone stay quiet about everything, Google would believe the SERP is actually better (because nobody is whining).

Imagine if there's no single protest in country like Egypt and everybody's just thinking like you "don't complain, this is how it is", then Mubarak could have stayed as president as long as he wanted.

While I agree with you that whining WITHOUT taking action is childish action but there are also webmasters who still trying as best as they can. There's nothing wrong if you voice your frustration as long as you still try your best to adapt.

I think that we simply have to accept that we are in an field that has a lot of risk. There is so much that is out of our hands completely. Even if you play 100% by the rules, you can lose everything.

Originally Posted by jstorm

It's quite easy to say all that when you then say, "it didn't affect me". Hello. I get what you're saying, even respect to a degree, but when a person gets knocked for a loop like this they react. "To every action there's a reaction". It takes a while to regroup and venting is normal. Some may react more strongly than others, but we're all only human. "Scolding" sure doesn't help anyone.

React how you wish. Dont make it public. Not going to lie...I was a little upset when I went to Subway today and they ran out of ham...but I didn't post about it. I also got hit pretty hard by the last panda update, but you won't find a thread I started complaining about it. I reevaluated my plan and moved on.

Picture Matt Cutts logging on to BHW and realizing he sunk everyone's site: Mission Complete.

Originally Posted by Expertpeon

I'm upset, and I have not seen ANY drop in revenue because of the work I did post feb...
I think every person who was doing well in this game is upset right now.

I saw a site that was bought for $150k (EMD in a hyper competitive niche and had no backlinks before he bought it) drop from #1 (spent at least $25k/mth on backlinks for a year), to #11 in March, to #68 now.

He was making at least $20k/day in profit... now I'd guess about 1/20th that... and that's only because he's still #1 on bing/yahoo....

Seriously, can you even imagine that? That's a site with around 25 employees. The vast majority of them will be laid off within the month.
This is a market where you have to have your own Visa/MC ISO to operate in... and you cannot exactly move that to the next site down the line...

Everyone who is getting upset with my post is missing the point here. THE EFFECTS FUCKING SUCK!! I don't know how much clearer I can make this. I am merely pointing out the immaturity in our BHW communal response. You don't see Bill Gates tweeting about how its bullshit that Apple is stealing their business as they progress to be the most cash-rich company in the world. Why not? Because it is unprofessional.

Originally Posted by Needalead

While I understand that there are some pissed off people but if you are being legit. You would have nothing to worry about. My sites were okay because I knew I was okay because I just build links naturally & add content, I know people always want a quick way out but honestly? What's it worth in the long run?

So, you are here on a BLACKHAT forum for what? To see what everyone here is doing so you don't accidentally do it?

In this business, you gotta learn to roll with the punches, even the ones that knock you on your ass. You just have to learn to adapt and roll with it. The OP is right. Bitching and moaning never accomplishes anything except kill time. Time that is better spent finding a way back to the top!

This is a challenge to IMers everywhere. Not just BHW. You have to decide: Are you up for it? I know I am. Let's roll!

Keep drinking the kool-aid, ohh wait I think I just saw a comet put your shoes on.

Originally Posted by Needalead

While I understand that there are some pissed off people but if you are being legit. You would have nothing to worry about. My sites were okay because I knew I was okay because I just build links naturally & add content, I know people always want a quick way out but honestly? What's it worth in the long run?

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!

My most legit site with the best content of all my sites and lots of social signals got crushed. It had a very diverse link profile and is a 12 year old domain. This was not a blackhat site. I purchased links for it but many of my high quality links were from high quality unique content.

The point I think you are missing is that Google doesn't give a flying F**k about people, hence no way to contact them. They don't care if they throw out algorithm changes and it drives people out of business. Legit businesses. Do you know how long Google places was jacked up? Probably still is but I just haven't been following it. There were endless complaints about how many people had their places rankings and pages disappear and take months for it to return.

People don't like spending a lot of time and money on something only to have some big company with their computer scripted algorithm come along and say oh well sorry but I guess you're shit out of luck. Now go away. Bottom line is they just don't give a shit how many people they negatively effect.

Their motto is let's kill 1000 legit businesses so we can try and get rid of one spam site. Oh and by the way we moved another spam site into your place...sorry...now move along.

Apparently it is professional to have absolutely no empathy for fellow forum members who suffered losses and no sympathy for their feelings but instead call them unprofessional for not just getting on with it like good robots.

Originally Posted by paddler

Apparently it is professional to have absolutely no empathy for fellow forum members who suffered losses and no sympathy for their feelings but instead call them unprofessional for not just getting on with it like good robots.

I think the OP was trying to show tough love. Encouraging others to adapt to the changes. The message may be getting mis-interpreted however. I see the intention, understand, and agree.

I like updates like these, they cleanse away any noobs or people that don't belong seriously in the ranking game.

The best part is my competitors are other businesses that relied on hiring "SEOs" who would go out and buy services and links on blogposts... and now they are all gone... I love it!

..and how many times will i have to bare these "don't be sad about google update/you are unprofessional when you talk about your sorrow " type of threads?







































Just kidding, i have to be cynical as a marketer as it provides potential clients

Originally Posted by paddler

Apparently it is professional to have absolutely no empathy for fellow forum members who suffered losses and no sympathy for their feelings but instead call them unprofessional for not just getting on with it like good robots.

If you'd like to semantically twist my statement, be my guest. This situation is not about empathy.
Posting a thread complaining about your loss on a forum is hardly considered "not just getting on with it like good robots."

I think highly of my fellow black hatters and I was shocked at the passiveness of the responses I have seen. WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.

You are complaining about being annoyed with complaining posts. They are complaining because they lost money or years of hard work. I know which complaint is more annoying to me.

Ya I'm fucking pissed, yes I'll move on and adapt. But don't give me that tough love BS, a lot of work, effort, money and research went into improving sites for people only to get crushed by a monopoly with a biased towards big brands. Ya I'm fucking pissed and ya I want everyone to move on from google as much as possible. I'm tired of seeing post by people like you, you don't like it that we lost a ton of money and effort then don't read the shit. Stop whining about our bitching. Keep sucking off google and provide "value" and see how far that gets you.

Hahaha. ^ that was funny.

Originally Posted by paddler

You are complaining about being annoyed with complaining posts. They are complaining because they lost money or years of hard work. I know which complaint is more annoying to me.

And you are fully entitled to that opinion. I'm not trying to complain, but merely return everyone to the professional standard that should be held by all internet marketers. In no way is it my goal to offend anyone. However, this is the first (or one of the first) posts questioning the necessity of complaining about this update whereas there are an excessive amount of "complaint" threads.

Originally Posted by ibmethatswhoib

Ya I'm fucking pissed, yes I'll move on and adapt. But don't give me that tough love BS, a lot of work, effort, money and research went into improving sites for people only to get crushed by a monopoly with a biased towards big brands. Ya I'm fucking pissed and ya I want everyone to move on from google as much as possible. I'm tired of seeing post by people like you, you don't like it that we lost a ton of money and effort then don't read the shit. Stop whining about our bitching. Keep sucking off google and provide "value" and see how far that gets you.

How exactly does one "suck off" Google? And what are the effects on rankings?

Originally Posted by azguru

How exactly does one "suck off" Google?

See Rat Fishkin

I dont feel like reading this long post but I will adapt to this new google algo... I will spam the shit out of my old backlinks..... Xrumer/scrapebox and amr... Iam sure most will do the same lets see 400-1000 xrumer posts per minute times shitload of other bhw users times 24 hours will = to how much spam and pissed forum admins??? well you do the math

google fucked would you rather have spam in one spot (private networks) or all over internet?

You're doing it now, enjoy the white hat juice boost and creamy rankings.

Originally Posted by azguru

How exactly does one "suck off" Google? And what are the effects on rankings?

I don't see anything wrong with people venting. I could care less if they make 1,000 threads venting. This isn't my forum. It belongs to the community and what the community wants to do, within the rules, is their business. As long as they're not breaking the rules let them be and mind your own damn business. Who are you to dictate professionalism to anyone? If BHW isn't professional enough for you then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Someone mentioned Bill Gates - you've got to be fukin kidding me. Study his history before sounding so stupid. I've been in the computer business 23 years this year. I know his history and remember all the stealing this guy did in the early years. I think he's been sued by every JV he ever partnered with. He would have been on the shitlist about 100 times if this forum was around in 1989-1999 and he with all his JVs were members. Mentioning professionalism and Bill Gates in the same sentence is nothing but ignorant.

Discussion and brainstorming is what leads to positive action at times. If you have all the frickin answers then start dishing them out. Don't jump on your pedestal and tell everyone that just got raped to get over it, move on and by God be professional about it. Let them tell their stories, share their thoughts, laugh a bit and distract them from the reality they got screwed without as much as a kiss. Time heals and so does sharing your problems with people suffering the same fate. People don't feel like they're the only ones and learn from others in discussions.

I guess you've never been in an support group for addictions but this is how it works. Sit in on an AA meeting some day and listen to everyone share their carbon copy stories of addictions. If you've heard one you've heard them all. Those meetings work because it reinforces people that they aren't unique and their problems aren't unique. They support each other and work through the issues. Are all the stories practically all the same? Damn right they are. Nobody walks into the room and says stfu we've all heard this shit before.

If you don't want to be in the support rooms then quit clicking on the threads. Don't sit on your pompous ass and tell everyone to stfu and be professional. Last time I checked this wasn't your forum. If you find someone that violates the rules then report it. Don't dictate what people should say and what they shouldn't. Then maybe people wouldn't return the favor!

Now act professional whatever the hell that means. If it means act like Bill Gates then I need a JV making good money with a secret method that is willing to share that method with me for cash and then I don't pay him and use the method for myself calling it my own. That is the Bill Gates professional I know..

[rant off]

Originally Posted by kvmcable

I don't see anything wrong with people venting. I could care less if they make 1,000 threads venting. This isn't my forum. It belongs to the community and what the community wants to do, within the rules, is their business. As long as they're not breaking the rules let them be and mind your own damn business. Who are you to dictate professionalism to anyone? If BHW isn't professional enough for you then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Someone mentioned Bill Gates - you've got to be fukin kidding me. Study his history before sounding so stupid. I've been in the computer business 23 years this year. I know his history and remember all the stealing this guy did in the early years. I think he's been sued by every JV he ever partnered with. He would have been on the shitlist about 100 times if this forum was around in 1989-1999 and he with all his JVs were members. Mentioning professionalism and Bill Gates in the same sentence is nothing but ignorant.

Discussion and brainstorming is what leads to positive action at times. If you have all the frickin answers then start dishing them out. Don't jump on your pedestal and tell everyone that just got raped to get over it, move on and by God be professional about it. Let them tell their stories, share their thoughts, laugh a bit and distract them from the reality they got screwed without as much as a kiss. Time heals and so does sharing your problems with people suffering the same fate. People don't feel like they're the only ones and learn from others in discussions.

I guess you've never been in an support group for addictions but this is how it works. Sit in on an AA meeting some day and listen to everyone share their carbon copy stories of addictions. If you've heard one you've heard them all. Those meetings work because it reinforces people that they aren't unique and their problems aren't unique. They support each other and work through the issues. Are all the stories practically all the same? Damn right they are. Nobody walks into the room and says stfu we've all heard this shit before.

If you don't want to be in the support rooms then quit clicking on the threads. Don't sit on your pompous ass and tell everyone to stfu and be professional. Last time I checked this wasn't your forum. If you find someone that violates the rules then report it. Don't dictate what people should say and what they shouldn't. Then maybe people wouldn't return the favor!

Now act professional whatever the hell that means. If it means act like Bill Gates then I need a JV making good money with a secret method that is willing to share that method with me for cash and then I don't pay him and use the method for myself calling it my own. That is the Bill Gates professional I know..

[rant off]

I don't even know where to start...Sorry I offended you that much

Originally Posted by bigeazy

I like updates like these, they cleanse away any noobs or people that don't belong seriously in the ranking game.

The best part is my competitors are other businesses that relied on hiring "SEOs" who would go out and buy services and links on blogposts... and now they are all gone... I love it!

Yes you love it now until one of your competitor takes aim at YOU, because now for $5 anyone can knock you out of the game, even if you played by the rules.

Originally Posted by ronmojohny

Yes you love it now until one of your competitor takes aim at YOU, because now for $5 anyone can knock you out of the game, even if you played by the rules.

Thats why you have more than a few sites... I am closely approaching the 300 barrier now.

When I hit a niche, I do atleast 5 sites per and these aren't your shitty MNS variety.

Well, this has been a great discussion and am happy to have taken part. Now I must go take a shit.

till now i did not see any effect on any of my websites. All are ranking good till now.

We all know examples of what happens after a business starts to put scaling and profits before its customers... It's a fact that the new g updates left a lot of 2003-2005 created pages on the front page and fresh and new info got penalized. Doesn't seem like a smart thing to me!

Also, weren't things really working for google? Like even the algorithm 2 years ago was okay and everyone was using g and it was growing fast. Why those changes? Maybe mat can explain this in great detail. Even if the update did make 10A% of search queries better, is that worth creating a million people who now hate on you?

I don't know who is on the advisory board of g but it does seem obvious that they should move into a direction to make more and more people love them..the search results were awesome..leave that as it is. Meanwhile focus on awesome stuff, like the new g self-driving car, creating other cool stuff like g earth and so on.

I think what the OP was trying to say is:

"Google changed the algo and now I'm delisted. This is how I'm going to regain my rankings and make record profits next quarter"

Posts are a lot more helpful and beneficial to the community than:

"Google fucked me and now I'm out of business forever, fuck Matt Cutts!" Posts.

Makes sense to me.